Does XNA support module formats (.xm, .mod, .it, .s3m)?

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: On Windows, you can use whatever library you want and so such modules could be used there. For the 360 (and out-of-the-box XNA on Windows) you would need to convert them to wave files and create a XACT project to play them (QuickXAP will help with the latter).

What about integrating fmod (http://www.fmod.org/)?  It supports Xbox 360.

FMOD is a native library and so cannot be used with the mere mortals version of the XNA FX (and I do no know if the special version does support native libraries).

I'm not aware of any C# tracker music players, but I suspect it would be fairly easy to write one, either on top of XACT or probably better using the SoundEffect class in the 3.0 framework. The format of these mod files is fairly simple and well docmented. You would need a processor that pulls out the sample data, so you could build that into a number of SoundEffect instances, and then at runtime, you would scan through the tracker data and trigger samples at the appropriate times. I've done similar things in C++ in the past, and the code ended up pretty simple once I got past the details of parsing the file format.

Shawn, I am sure it's not hard to get any easy C# tracker music player, but I don't have time.  I'll import uncompressed WAV files if I have to first.

Hopefully future versions of XNA support tracker music... they are a perfect match.

Matthew Doucette:

Hopefully future versions of XNA support tracker music... they are a perfect match.

Make sure to request it the proper way then.... http://connect.microsoft.com/

The ZMan:

Matthew Doucette:

Hopefully future versions of XNA support tracker music... they are a perfect match.

Make sure to request it the proper way then.... http://connect.microsoft.com/

Sure.  I just registered for Microsoft Connect.  Now how do I request it?  I wouldn't mind explaining to anyone interested how and why these module formats are so great.  I bet we could get somewhere.  They truly are *perfect* for small downloadable games.

Choose XNA Game Studio from the list then the feedback link. Then you can search to see if others have put anything similar in - or press submit feedback.

I'm pretty sure the MS team know all the advantages of such formats. But there's a lot to making this work and prioritising. Few games use tracker music these days, who would they license the samples from, should they use FMOD - if so who pays for it? How many people would use this? etc etc.

Matthew Doucette:

I'll import uncompressed WAV files if I have to first.

Well, that's hardly necessary! 

If you're using 2.0, you can use compression in XACT.

In 3.0, you also have the option of importing songs as WMA.

The ZMan:

Choose XNA Game Studio from the list then the feedback link. Then you can search to see if others have put anything similar in - or press submit feedback.

That's the problem, I don't see XNA Game Studio in the list.  All I see is Visual Studio Registration Benefits Portal", which brings me no where.  I'm totally new at Connect, so maybe I'm just making a newbie mistake somehow...

 

The ZMan:

I'm pretty sure the MS team know all the advantages of such formats. But there's a lot to making this work and prioritising. Few games use tracker music these days, who would they license the samples from, should they use FMOD - if so who pays for it? How many people would use this? etc etc.

Few games are limited to small download sizes.  What do most PC indie games use?  I wonder if they use tracker-style music?  Off topic, but I remember the first Unreal Tournament used it, and the music was incredible.  Licensing the samples should be no more of a problem than the samples used in other forms of music creation.  I'm not sure how much support there is for it now, but with what Microsoft is trying to do with XNA, reminds me of the old-school demoscene (i.e., small programs that did amazing things), and tracked music was perfect for that.

Matthew Doucette:

The ZMan:

Choose XNA Game Studio from the list then the feedback link. Then you can search to see if others have put anything similar in - or press submit feedback.

That's the problem, I don't see XNA Game Studio in the list.  All I see is Visual Studio Registration Benefits Portal", which brings me no where.  I'm totally new at Connect, so maybe I'm just making a newbie mistake somehow...

 

Direct link to XNA Game Studio on connect: https://connect.microsoft.com/site/sitehome.aspx?SiteID=226 

I suspect it would be fairly easy to write one, either on top of XACT

Shawn,

It is impossible to write a tracker on top of XACT or the new sound playback API. A tracker needs to generate samples, with specific timing between playing channels. The only way a tracker can be written is if we get to push sound data at the API as buffers. As already requested on Connect, btw :-)

 

jwatte:

It is impossible to write a tracker on top of XACT or the new sound playback API. A tracker needs to generate samples

This would require a build step as well as a runtime player component. At build time, it would extract the sample data and build it into XACT or SoundEffect format. Then at runtime, it would trigger these samples at the appropriate times. That's totally possible.

The ZMan:

Matthew Doucette:

Hopefully future versions of XNA support tracker music... they are a perfect match.

Make sure to request it the proper way then.... http://connect.microsoft.com/

I just received response from my suggestion on connect.microsoft.com:

"Before filing your suggestion please read the following: http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.mspx#EVE."

I don't get it.  The copyright issue is in the use of the format?  If Winamp/AOL can do it, why can't Microsoft?  This is not a big deal to me anymore, now that I learned XACT compressions my audio! :)  I thought it would help make XNA kick ass just that extra bit more.

The link is I think for this(below) Though I'm not sure why. Did you send them some code or something. Most companies have policies like this so that you dont claim they stole your idea after the fact. In fact most companies throw stuff away without looking so they can deny they ever saw it. But I dont understand why you got this and none of the rest of us have when we put ideas into connect. Send us a link to your connect item.

UNSOLICITED IDEA SUBMISSION POLICY.

MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS EMPLOYEES DO NOT ACCEPT OR CONSIDER UNSOLICITED IDEAS, INCLUDING IDEAS FOR NEW ADVERTISING CAMPAIGNS, NEW PROMOTIONS, NEW PRODUCTS OR TECHNOLOGIES, PROCESSES, MATERIALS, MARKETING PLANS OR NEW PRODUCT NAMES. PLEASE DO NOT SEND ANY ORIGINAL CREATIVE ARTWORK, SAMPLES, DEMOS, OR OTHER WORKS. THE SOLE PURPOSE OF THIS POLICY IS TO AVOID POTENTIAL MISUNDERSTANDINGS OR DISPUTES WHEN MICROSOFT'S PRODUCTS OR MARKETING STRATEGIES MIGHT SEEM SIMILAR TO IDEAS SUBMITTED TO MICROSOFT. SO, PLEASE DO NOT SEND YOUR UNSOLICITED IDEAS TO MICROSOFT OR ANYONE AT MICROSOFT. IF, DESPITE OUR REQUEST THAT YOU NOT SEND US YOUR IDEAS AND MATERIALS, YOU STILL SEND THEM, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT MICROSOFT MAKES NO ASSURANCES THAT YOUR IDEAS AND MATERIALS WILL BE TREATED AS CONFIDENTIAL OR PROPRIETARY.

 

ZMan,

All I gave them was this suggestion:

"Support tracker module formats (.xm, .s3m, .it, .mod) like winamp and fmod sound system does. Why? They allow for very small digital music files, like in the demoscene and the early PC and Amiga games in 90s."

https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=360996&SiteID=226

Very odd... oh well you tried... I think its probbly outside the scope of what XNA would ever do anyway. Microsoft tend not to provide solutions at tht high a level but instead let 3rd parties do that.

Maybe you can convicne FMOD to provide their indie version for XNA developers.

I don't really see the appeal of using tracker music anymore.  Sure, mod files are small, but they are also very crappy.  Nowadays pretty much every musician uses a real sequencer in which it is much easier to achieve a balanced mixdown.  Besides, space is cheap these days anyway... and with WMA compression a piece of music doesn't take too much of it anyway.

spin0r:

I don't really see the appeal of using tracker music anymore.  Sure, mod files are small, but they are also very crappy.  Nowadays pretty much every musician uses a real sequencer in which it is much easier to achieve a balanced mixdown.  Besides, space is cheap these days anyway... and with WMA compression a piece of music doesn't take too much of it anyway.

I agree.  The format is better used for super small games (Zune?), not 50..150Mb games.  I am not bothering to pursue this further.

Mathew just a heads up I don't know what happened here. I saw this request and processed it normally with an external resolution. It's a nice to have but with the WMA compression and the support for SoundEffect in 3.0 it's not likely we would pursue support for these formats. I just wanted to let you know we saw the request and it wasn't us that threw up the link. We wouldn't want to stop the creative suggestions from coming in. :)

Warder:

Mathew just a heads up I don't know what happened here. I saw this request and processed it normally with an external resolution. It's a nice to have but with the WMA compression and the support for SoundEffect in 3.0 it's not likely we would pursue support for these formats. I just wanted to let you know we saw the request and it wasn't us that threw up the link. We wouldn't want to stop the creative suggestions from coming in. :)

Jason, no probably at all.  Thank you for coming on here and letting me know.  I completely agree with your decision.  The only possible use I could see with these tracker formats are small <10MB video games.  (How big will Zune games be, typically?)

I love that you are open to creative suggestions! :)  It's vey cool to be a (if only small) part of XNA...

I'm terribly sorry for bringing this old topic up, but there are more benefits than just file size when it comes to tracker formats. As the music isn't streaming you get much better control, eg. you can mute individual instruments, change the tempo of a song or trigger visual effects from notes. In short you get a much easier way to create music that adapts to (or even affects) the game dynamically and still has a small footprint.

Shawn Hargreaves:

Matthew Doucette:

I'll import uncompressed WAV files if I have to first.

Well, that's hardly necessary! 

If you're using 2.0, you can use compression in XACT.

In 3.0, you also have the option of importing songs as WMA.

Wouldn't XNA's fairly inexact timing make this a bit iffy?

Having direct access to the Soundbuffer data would enable us to create tracker-based music players, in addition to supporting more compressed sound formats. I raised a request for just this functionality more than two years ago:

https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=273398&SiteID=226

Please rate the item if you'd like to see it implemented. It's already regarded as 'Very important' by the community.

It's such a shame that access to this data is hidden in XNA as there are so many potential benefits, from tracker-based music, to microphone input, to guitar-based games, to algorithmic sound generation, better sound blending and demo-style effects. I really do hope that Microsoft introduces this in a future GS version - it's the one thing holding me back from my project... :(