Hey everyone, I've just finished and upload my first XNA game, PongRPG.  You can find a copy of it and some more information here.  Here is a quick features list:

• RPG-style system (HP, stat tracking, etc...)
• 20 levels to level up to (level up by earning XP by playing matches)
• Unlockables include magic spells to help you win and armor to help defend yourself against scores
• Customize your paddle by equipping different armor and different combinations of spells
• Upgrade your paddle abilities by using stat points gained each level (make your paddle longer, magic stronger, more HP, and earn more XP)
• 4 unlockable 'achievements'

To play you'll need a full install of XNA GS since this game targets the PC (meaning you either need Visual Studio 2005 installed, or Visual Studio C# Express Edition).  After downloading, open the index.html file and that has links for what you'll need to install (including the game).

Screens:

NOTE:  These screens are pre-release and may have some slight differences compared to the final version.

Any feedback is readily encouraged and I'm looking forward to hearing what you say.

It's an interesting idea, and quite fun to play. The music helps; so do the colors. The game both looks and sounds like an old-school arcade game you might have seen on the NES, so it's easy to just happily sit and play for extended periods. The graphics look great, although the paddles are a little thick. 

There are many gripes I have with the game.

Why no mouse support? Can't I use the mouse to move my paddle? Keyboards in general are very imprecise devices with low sampling rates. Using the mouse would be much better. Using the XBox 360 controller would be nice, too. Take it a step farther and let me use the keyboard and the controller to navigate the menus, so I don't have to switch input devices.

The framerate gets choppy as the match goes on. If you keep the match going for more than 30 seconds or so, the framerate goes to hell and your input response goes with it.

The game signs me into LIVE whether I want it to or not. There doesn't appear to be any network play. Why does it do that?

Only three save slots? Again, why?

Less than six character name? Okay, clearly it means six characters or less - ridiculous requirement, but I'll deal with it - so "Caldar". Nothing happens. Try again: "Caldar". Nothing. Oh, does it really mean "less than six", as in "five or fewer"? Let's try "Calda". Hey, that works. But... why? Less than six for what earthly reason? And what's with no error message?

Collision detection is a little iffy. Sometimes the ball will pass right through a paddle, especially at high speeds, and other times it will have multiple collisions with the same paddle.

It's not clear that the experience points you earn after a match are not the points you can spend. The link to spend points is always active, even when you have no points, and it doesn't play an unpleasant sound if you try to add points but don't have any.

There's no way to change your mind about points. Once you add them, they're added forever, so if you accidentally double-bounce on the mouse button you're stuck with two points where you only wanted one.

When you "Customize Paddle" and click "Select Armor", the label never loses highlight and is never erased from the screen. The "select armor" window is obscured by the "New Magic" label in the "earned" area.

The name of the spell in the "earned" area is drawn over top of the help window when you hover over one of the four stat names.

I don't recall seeing a notification for the 25% armor. I may have just missed it.

The armor scale changes. When it's first drawn, it's entirely inside the paddle, but as soon as you move the paddle it expands to a slightly larger size.

You never actually stop letting the player spend points on paddle size. At level 43, I've increased mine to about 3/4 of the screen, which means there's a core area of the screen that is always at the center of my paddle... so the computer can get into an infinite loop that's impossible to break. But it's hysterical.

There's probably more, but that's what I got out of two hours with the game. Which is another thing... two hours in, it seems like I've done everything there is to do. It was fun, but I can't really see myself doing it again. I'd like to see you make something more open-ended where you don't beat the game with a stick the first day.

The gameplay experience, again, is awesome. I'd suggest you port this to XBox 360 and send it in for DBP, with a bit more polish... it's certainly got the fun factor.

Thanks for the awesome feedback!  Here are some responses to what you've mentioned:

Mouse/Controller Support:  Controller support was considered but since I don't have one to test with I didn't want to implement it.  If I could get a controller (my friend has one), I'd be happy to put it in.  I'll look at adding the Mouse (I agree, going from Keyboard->Mouse->Keyboard is annoying).

Saves/Live:  I used the GamerServices component to provide that 6 characters or less box used to save your game.  It seemed much simpler to do that rather than build my own custom GUI to allow input; I'm guessing it's this component that is requiring you to sign into Live.  It only allows 6 characters (apparently 5>=X) because of the length of the name in that save box.  If the name was really long, it would stretch really far out.  That said, I had considered a method where if you input "FredFlintstone" it would put in "FredF..." but I'm sure people would get annoyed if they had two games that possibly began with "FredF...".  I have introduced a smaller font since making that, maybe I could add that to allow for more characters.  I had a friend comment about an error if you have more than the allotted chars, I'll look into adding that.  The 3 saves is just a design thing.  I wanted it to have the 3 slots similar to the Zelda 64 or Mario 64 games where you have 3 possible save slots.

Graphics Glitches:  Things dealing with fonts and items drawing over things (including losing highlight) are all little graphical items I haven't found but are quite easy to solve which I can quickly fix.

Level 43+:  Actually, there are only supposed to be 20 levels and it's not supposed to count any higher than that (something I implemented but never tested).  (I'll get to why there are only 20 levels)

Framerate/Collision:  I haven't had problems during a match with the framerate but that all depends on the machine.  I've probably built it a bit intensive and haven't noticed (similar to how I built the AI quite difficult in the first silent release and was told it was too hard).  I'll look at trying to fix this.  Collision is something I've had difficulties with at higher speeds since day one.  I'll try to find out some other way to calculate it if possible.

Finally, two hours of gameplay.  I realize there isn't a massive amount to do in the game, but first and foremost I released this as a project to include in my portfolio before a widely distributed game.  It wasn't until friends wanted to play it that I considered really chatting it up.  This is also why there are only 20 levels (a person looking at me for a potential job probably won't even spend 1 hour playing the game).

I'd love to port it to 360 although I don't have one so I have no way of testing.  There are certain things I'd probably try to include that I wanted in the Windows release (multiplayer over Live, etc...).  I'll try to get a load of these fixes implemented soon, and hopefully a few others I had planned (I'll mention when it's updated).

Thanks for playing, and if you or anyone has anything else I'm still all ears.

XNAtticus:

Collision is something I've had difficulties with at higher speeds since day one.  I'll try to find out some other way to calculate it if possible.

Since it's possible that the paddle also moved during that time frame, things get a little bit more complex. But at least checking the line between previous and current ball position will help.

XNAtticus:

If I could get a controller (my friend has one), I'd be happy to put it in.

And I'd be more than happy to test it. Although it would be nice if I could test it before you fix the bugs; the bugs are fun. ;)

XNAtticus:

The 3 saves is just a design thing.  I wanted it to have the 3 slots similar to the Zelda 64 or Mario 64 games where you have 3 possible save slots.

So... you wanted to imitate one of the more frustrating design limitations of the cartridge format?

Your game gives me a lot of "data will be lost" warnings when it's not going to lose any data. You autosave after every match. If I'm not actually playing a match, no data is going to be lost.

The ESC key dumps you rather unceremoniously out to the desktop.

XNAtticus:

It only allows 6 characters (apparently 5>=X) because of the length of the name in that save box. 

Why not stack your three saves vertically? Then I could put in at least 18. It's not like they say anything about what level I am or how many XP I have.

XNAtticus:

Graphics Glitches:  Things dealing with fonts and items drawing over things

That's just a matter of whether you ever looked at message A while message B was on the screen. It's more helpful pointer than criticism; this happens to everyone.

XNAtticus:

Actually, there are only supposed to be 20 levels and it's not supposed to count any higher than that

20 levels isn't enough. I was nowhere near "done" when I hit level 20. This game is fun. I wanted to keep playing.

However, things do get a little ridiculous after a couple more hours...

Yes, you can increase all your stats well beyond reason. The cheese strategy is to dump all your points into "Extra XP" and "Paddle Size".Dump enough points into "Magic Power" and your "Double Damage" spell becomes a one-point kill. My paddle is now longer than the screen is tall; I can't even move it. I literally just start a match, cast "Double Damage", and read a book until I hear the music change.

The funny part is that I'm actually having MORE fun with your game now that I can do ridiculous things with it. Replay value is up significantly. I was up much, much too late playing with your game.

You might even want to treat this as an experiment: put together something where people can send their stats to a central server, and see how far people push it. How many people will stop spending their points simply because they're "supposed" to stop? Just start gathering data, and you could probably write a fascinating paper about this and get college credit for it somewhere. Let people play the game and send you their stats until you have a few thousand people, then mine the data and see what it says.

@BShields:  Yeah I noticed before my problem was that it would move too fast and pass the paddle.  I added a static number to subtract from the ball in case it went past (yeah cheap fix).  I'll look at that line thing though.

I'll consider making the save files in a vertical format to allow a longer name.  I then will need to change other places in the game where it displays as well (bottom right of the Garage).  The exit dialogue I use is a generic one that can be called from anywhere I have it coded to, so doing so in most of those places won't save your audio/tutorial option settings or point settings (unless you quit to main menu).  The esc button will be removed in the future.  That was a development key used so I didn't have to constantly go through the menus to exit while debugging, I planned to take it out this release but it never happened (forgot).

My biggest gripe with going past 20 is I don't have any more content that you could unlock, plus the stat bubbles are setup to only go to 20, I guess they could potentially go to 40 if I only gave 1 point per level.  I did consider stopping point giving and stuff and just allowing the player to continue to play after 20/40 just to gain XP and levels but won't gain anything else.  The only technical limitation is you could potentially get so high that your XP score or something will look like crap on screen or will just physically error out the program (maybe this would be ok?).  You seem to be interested in playing the game and glitching it so I've gotta ask, have you by chance taken a look at the save game file?  ;)  The way it sounds, I should seriously fix that...

I think I'll consider extending it to 40 levels, that would make distributing the items longer (with 20 levels, multiple armors and spells and maxing out the points can be done quite quickly).  Also, could you tell that the AI got a bit more difficult after certain levels?  This is something I wanted to work on in more depth as well.  Maybe if I did 40+ levels I'd try to make it so you need more XP to level like a traditional RPG (currently it's 100xp per level).

XNAtticus:

My biggest gripe with going past 20 is I don't have any more content that you could unlock

I barely even notice the unlocked content; "Shrink" is effectively useless, so "Double Damage" is the only spell that matters. Armor, just pick the best you have. It's the stat increases that are fun, and they only start to be fun when you begin getting outrageous with them.

XNAtticus:

The only technical limitation is you could potentially get so high that your XP score or something will look like crap on screen or will just physically error out the program (maybe this would be ok?). 

I think you'd have to play several million matches before that happened, which is a few thousand a day for a year. Most people would get bored with a game before that. (Okay, so GTA:VC didn't leave my PS2 for well over 14 months... but this isn't GTA.)

XNAtticus:

You seem to be interested in playing the game and glitching it so I've gotta ask, have you by chance taken a look at the save game file?

That would be cheating! (He said, opening the save file.) Oh... dear me. Yeah, not a good approach for a PC save game file.

Honestly, I downloaded and played the game because some twelve hours after you posted the link, you had no replies. I thought "that has really got to suck", and figured someone should download and play your game. What surprised me was that once I got the game installed, it was loads of fun; I wanted to give it a full 1-20 workout, because it bugs the crap out of me when I give a game to a playtester and he plays three levels and quits. (The first nine levels are... the tutorial. You didn't even get to the point where the enemy ships show up. You didn't test my game at all.) Pong RPG is sort of tedious for the first few levels, but around level 5 the dam breaks and it gets a lot easier.

Wait... it's just like a real RPG! At first, everything is just annoying, but then you reach a sort of critical mass where the game is fun to play because it's a bit of a challenge but you can still win. Then it starts to get ridiculous, and just like you might go wandering around in the early stages of a game where you can kill stuff with one hit, you end up just giggling maniacally as the CPU frantically runs all over the screen while you just sit there because the ball can't fit past you anyway. Ever fight something in an RPG that comes running up and hits you, and you see that little "0" float up from your character? That's so much fun. You get to this point where you're level 255 and everything else is under 50, so you just stomp through armies of warriors like buckwheat through a goose.

Incidentally, you give the "Statster" award for allocating 40 points, not for raising all stats to ten.

There's an idea: lock the stats when your player's got a stat under ten, and then switch to counters instead of bubbles. That way, you have to get a 10 in everything before you can go over that, but then it all unlocks and you can get outrageous with it.

Hey, when I make 200 XP in a single match, I don't get any more points. I get two levels, but only 4 points. (Stat points go from 2 to 4 per level at 20, and stay that way...) So optimal "Extra XP" is 80, and optimal "Magic Power" is 20, and optimal "Paddle Size" is 130... so it's essentially unnecessary to spend points after level 67.

XNAtticus:

I think I'll consider extending it to 40 levels, that would make distributing the items longer (with 20 levels, multiple armors and spells and maxing out the points can be done quite quickly). 

If it took twice as long to get to top stats, I probably would have lost interest. I also never notice when I get armor upgrades.

You know what would be cool? Money. Every time you hit the ball, you get 1 XP, and then at the end of the game the "prize purse" is split based on your remaining health. Instead of just a "Customize Paddle" area, you could have a store.

XNAtticus:

Also, could you tell that the AI got a bit more difficult after certain levels?

It never seemed like the AI changed, really. It looked the same the whole way through.

CDarklock:

it bugs the crap out of me when I give a game to a playtester and he plays three levels and quits. (The first nine levels are... the tutorial. You didn't even get to the point where the enemy ships show up. You didn't test my game at all.) Pong RPG is sort of tedious for the first few levels, but around level 5 the dam breaks and it gets a lot easier.

Wait... it's just like a real RPG! At first, everything is just annoying, but then you reach a sort of critical mass where the game is fun to play because it's a bit of a challenge but you can still win. Then it starts to get ridiculous, and just like you might go wandering around in the early stages of a game where you can kill stuff with one hit, you end up just giggling maniacally as the CPU frantically runs all over the screen while you just sit there because the ball can't fit past you anyway. Ever fight something in an RPG that comes running up and hits you, and you see that little "0" float up from your character? That's so much fun. You get to this point where you're level 255 and everything else is under 50, so you just stomp through armies of warriors like buckwheat through a goose.

Haha, thanks.  That's exactly what happened, I created a closed release and gave it to friends and I think they played halfway into their first match and quit.  Obviously making me think 'Ok, crappy game.'  Sometimes it justs takes people to bite the bullet and try it (like you did with mine).

XNAtticus:

I think I'll consider extending it to 40 levels, that would make distributing the items longer (with 20 levels, multiple armors and spells and maxing out the points can be done quite quickly). 

If it took twice as long to get to top stats, I probably would have lost interest. I also never notice when I get armor upgrades.

You know what would be cool? Money. Every time you hit the ball, you get 1 XP, and then at the end of the game the "prize purse" is split based on your remaining health. Instead of just a "Customize Paddle" area, you could have a store.

XNAtticus:

Also, could you tell that the AI got a bit more difficult after certain levels?

It never seemed like the AI changed, really. It looked the same the whole way through.

I've decided to stick with 20 'core' levels where you will earn stat points and unlockables (not including the awards).  After 20 you will still earn XP and thus continue to level up, but won't receive any more stat points or armor/magic/etc...  I think it would be cool to have people email me or somehow log their level and XP amounts.  You said you were at like 80-something and it blew me away.  I could have like a Top 5 or something on the site next to the download...

You're right, the AI didn't change, because of my crummy programming.  That should be fixed now.  What you played was 80-some levels of the easy AI.  What was in the code-behind that never took hold was either the Medium or the Hard AI which starts based on your level (basically they move faster and have more life).  I've fixed a large part of the bugs you've mentioned including certain things not stopping at 20 (stat points) and the AI bug.  Right now I'm working on implementing mouse inputs to control the paddle.  The main menu has changed to allow 6 or less characters and is more clear instead of saying 6 and meaning 5>=.  I would hopefully like to implement the encryption of the save file as well with this release.  If I can get to it and have time I'll try to release the next version in a few weeks.

Also, (as you can see) the OP has been updated with a few screens for anyone interested in the game.  (Warning, the Screens link gives away some spoilers).

XNAtticus:

That's exactly what happened, I created a closed release and gave it to friends and I think they played halfway into their first match and quit.  Obviously making me think 'Ok, crappy game.'

There needs to be some sort of "hook". The game needs to be fun to play all on its own. Peter Molyneux said during the design of Fable, they invested a lot of time in the combat system to ensure that just swinging your sword would be fun. Even when there's nothing to fight, you can stand there and draw your sword and whack X, and it's fun. Not for long, but it's still fun.

Where a lot of RPGs fail is that the only incentive, the only goal, is to make that next level. There needs to be a reason you're going to make that next level. In the early stages of the game, the impetus is the story: I need to see the next cutscene. Later, it becomes needing to get the cool items in the dungeon. In the end, it's that last boss that you have to be at least level 200 to defeat, and you've only got 47 more levels to go... most RPGs have a really pants endgame. (Even Final Fantasy VII!)

A good game design leads you from one goal to the next. You play the game, and you immediately want to play it some more. Before you get bored with what's making you want to play it, something else pops up that makes you want to keep playing it. The more of this stuff you can pop up in the early stages of the game, the more people will rave about what a great game you have.

My basic rule of thumb is this: if you can occupy the player for two hours, and he still wants to play your game, you have a successful design. The build of PongRPG that I played was very much a successful design; I was up way too late playing it, and came back to it the next day. All told, I've put about seven hours of play into it, which rivals the duration of some triple-A titles... so I'm not sure "fixing" the things that made it this successful would be the best idea!

XNAtticus:

I've decided to stick with 20 'core' levels where you will earn stat points and unlockables (not including the awards).  After 20 you will still earn XP and thus continue to level up, but won't receive any more stat points or armor/magic/etc... 

Then... why would you keep playing?

I played to level 20, and then kept going just to see what would happen when I got to level 21. I got 4 stat points. I nodded my head and thought "bug". And then I got to wondering whether I could spend them. So I put them in "Extra XP", and they worked. I put some more in "Extra XP". I considered the best place to put points; the best answer I could find was "Magic Power", so the "Double Damage" spell would become a one-hit kill. I got that done, and went back to putting points in "Extra XP". When I got to 100 per match, I stopped, and started concentrating on paddle size.

If I got to level 21 and didn't get anything, I'd have just stopped.

XNAtticus:

You said you were at like 80-something and it blew me away.

Heh... I started a new profile and was close to 200 before I got bored. Maybe I should go finish up those last couple levels.