There are tons of questions about how to get models from whatever 3D modeler into XNA, and all of the replies (that I've read) are "hack this, edit that, but unfortunately your textures still won't work" etc...

Can someone tell us how Microsoft gets their models in? Tiny.x from the DirectX SDK and dude.fbx from the XNA Skinning Sample are great examples of what I think a lot of us would like to be able to do (textured properly, animated with bones) so we know it's possible, but can't seem to get right. I could understand if DirectX left everyone out in the cold and said "Write you own import and export code for your own proprietary formats" but XNA is pushing its content pipeline (which is either almost very cool, or I don't understand it well enough yet) and then not telling us how they themselves use it.

There's lots of modeling tutorials and coding tutorials, it would be nice to have that one "in between" tutorial.

Go bump this thread:

http://forums.xna.com/thread/7104.aspx

I don't know how Tiny was built - that's from way before my time :-)

The dude in the skinning sample was modelled, textured, skinned, and animated entirely in Maya if I remember right. We exported him using the latest version of the FBX exporter plugin from Autodesk (not the one that ships built in to Maya, beacuse that was quite old, so we downloaded the latest release instead), and that was that: we didn't have to do any manual editing or hacking around after the export.

Very cool and much appreciated! Thank you!

What about the texture locations, I have found that with Max and the locations of textures inside the fbx file I had to manually edit the locations. I have forwarded this onto Autodesk to see if the product can have an option added to change the paths to a new location reletive to the model.

Glenn Wilson:

What about the texture locations, I have found that with Max and the locations of textures inside the fbx file I had to manually edit the locations. I have forwarded this onto Autodesk to see if the product can have an option added to change the paths to a new location reletive to the model.

Use the free Panda .x exporter for Max.  It allows you to output your models with relative texture paths.

http://www.andytather.co.uk/Panda/directxmax.aspx

Nod I can agree on that, but having the ability in the one application would make it easier, and produce less hastles.

the latest .fbx exporter from Autodesk for Maya allows you to export in ascii format. If you export in ascii, the file is human-readable and you can huntdown the texture path and change it yourself.

Most of the formats have been readable, but having the ability to remove the need to manually edit the file would be better. It would reduce the risk.

 

That's why I like simple blender with python and open scripts clearly readable and editable.

Scripts are fine and dandy and at the end of the day, working on a commercial project, most likely the way to go. The point of this thread was that XNA (which is great! don't take this as bashing) is being touted as a way for "hobbyists" to get into the scene, but writing scripts to import and export models is still a pretty steep learning curve.

Going from creating a colored triangle and importing a model snagged from the SpaceWar starter kit to exporting and animating a skinned mesh is a huge jump. Someone somewhere at Microsoft knows how to successfully export a model from some program; learning how to do this the way those who created XNA had in mind will be the least likely to be broken in future releases, and is probably the simplest way as well. Then, once you've got the basics down, you can choose whether you just want to do something cool or go for deeper understanding of a particular aspect of the process.

I have to say that I agree, 3d content creation (and importing) is very tricky.

I have plumped for blender, and I have gradually got together a process for making models, texturing them and exporting them, but it has been tricky.

(very very simple models, no bones, single mesh)

Although the information is out there on how to do stuff, it is very dispersed. If someone started an XNA-Blender site, that had end to end examples and documented the odd little nuances, I could see the combination quickly becoming very attractive to newer developers. 

Good luck with your modelling!

J

What gets me is this: Ok, all you hobbyists who just got a free compiler and free framework, now it's time to shell out a grand on a modelling package so you can write your hobbyist games. I don't think so. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a hobby. Convincing my wife I needed a new computer was bad enough. ;)

What we need is a workable way to get models from something other than the Big Two packages into XNA without hacks. I don't know if that's Microsoft's job or the community's, but it would be nice if Microsoft added support for some of the hobbyist-level packages.

 

The lack of a modelling package is not Microsoft's fault, really.  They do not make a 3D asset utility, otherwise we'd get Microsoft Model Maker Express Edition, or something similar.  I find the content pipeline to work fine with Wings 3D, which is free, cross platform, and quite a few years old.  Milkshape and Blender are an option as well, and they are either low cost or free.  DeleD is another modeller, that has a free version or a $100 pro-version, and it is good for making static geometry like buildings.  Several example importers exist for DeleD, and I think writing one for XNA would not be too difficult (it's on my todo list).

I wasn't suggesting that Microsoft provide a modelling package, just import support. Given the problems people have had getting decent .X or .FBX exporters for the hobbyist packages to work with XNA without hacking, manual editing, etc., it just seems that more direct support for one or more of those formats would be a good thing.

I'm afraid I'm pulling this thread off-topic, so I'll let you respond if you wish and leave it at that.

 

Carrara from Daz3d.com is still a good buy with all of it's fbx export problems (no fbx animations but it does export x file animations that worked with the skinned animation sample).  FragMotion is great for 25 bucks, but only your static models, I think you could work around with the mirror skelton transforms in FragMotion and get it's animations to work with xna.  Ultimate 3d is a great convertor, but major memory hog.  None of these guys fbx files worked correctly with the skinned model sample.  When I imported dude (X file version converted by Ultimate3d), half of his skelton was in reverse that's why I think FragMotion has the functionility but I haven't had the time to figure it out.

First, if you have 3ds Max, then I recommend the kW X-port plug-in, as it supports shaders, texture re-naming and re-basing, and a few other neat things, as well as slicing the Max time-line into multiple named sub-animations with separate time scales.

Second, if you can't afford Max, then I can recommend the following tools:

Blender -- Free, but needs hacks. It's open source, so you can fix it, though.
DeleD -- Inexpensive (or even Free), and doesn't need hacks. Doesn't do animation, though, just static models.
Milkshape -- Inexpensive, but needs hacks.
gameSpace -- Inexpensive, doesn't need hacks.
trueSpace -- a little more expensive (around $500 IIRC), but a full-featured tool

Then, there is also the XNA partner -- the XSI mod tool for XNA! It sounds almost like exactly what you're asking for, brought to you through action by the XNA team.

You young'uns don't know how good you have it. Back in my day, I had to work the early shift for two years to buy a home computer with three kilobytes of RAM! That's when we had electricity, that is, which wasn't often, considering all the snow we had to walk through on our way to school, uphill, ........

jwatte:

...considering all the snow we had to walk through on our way to school, uphill, ........

... both ways. ;)

 

TrueSpace is now free:

http://blogs.msdn.com/virtualearth/archive/2008/07/23/announcing-truespace-for-virtual-earth-3d-development.aspx

Registration is here:http://cart1.caligari.com/web/Truespacemainreg.aspx

I'm curious to know what hacks you are talking about regarding Blender.  I've been using Blender for my 3D modeling for several months now, and I'm not having any problems.

David Hunt:

What gets me is this: Ok, all you hobbyists who just got a free compiler and free framework, now it's time to shell out a grand on a modelling package so you can write your hobbyist games. I don't think so. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a hobby. Convincing my wife I needed a new computer was bad enough. ;)

Be a 2D hobbyist? ;)

BShields:

David Hunt:

What gets me is this: Ok, all you hobbyists who just got a free compiler and free framework, now it's time to shell out a grand on a modelling package so you can write your hobbyist games. I don't think so. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a hobby. Convincing my wife I needed a new computer was bad enough. ;)

Be a 2D hobbyist? ;)

I am. I'm too old to start mucking with 3D! ;-)