I have read that consumers can read reviews, videos and try the game before buy it (a demo), but, you need to upload a COMPLETE game as project, so how a 'try' version can be downloaded by the consumers?.

Because, all approved games in XNA creators club are complete games, is this right?, and once the new service is available these games will be in Xbox Marketplace and will can be purchased by its price.

The Communtiy game Service will expose a .IsTrial flag which you can read in your game to determine if you are in trial mode or not.

The trials are time based - though right now we don't have details on what that time is. I seem to remember that once the time is up the game will exit... there are some feature requests for the game to be pre notified of this so that it won't be just an untidy end.

So you submit a complete game with a code path that can do wahtever it likes for trials. e.g. only let them play one level, let them play limited lives, not give them power ups... its up to you.

Thank you very much, really. But then, when a Premium user downloads the game, is complete or trial?, in trial maybe there is content you can't see for a complete review of the content (appropiate content for age rating).

Dark Schneider:

But then, when a Premium user downloads the game, is complete or trial

AFAIK, the complete game is downloaded, but only the trial content is seen if you download it as a demo, just like regular Arcade games.

Dark Schneider:

 in trial maybe there is content you can't see for a complete review of the content (appropiate content for age rating).

The content that a player sees depends on the developer.

When you download the game for review, I believe it's full (not trial). However, once the game has passed review, you can no longer download it, so you can't get "unlimited free games" by being a reviewer.

Its a good question... makes sense that the review download is the full version becuase of content hiding but there's been no confirmation of this.

Jon is right though that once the game is approved you can't download it any more though yes the reviewers could still use that copy - they need a paid CC membership and XNA Game Studio installed though which will deter most users. Since MS also change the Guid (I know they change it after submission - I wonder if they also change it after approval) the review copy won't be able to play network games with the version on XBLCG which is a bit of a restriction.

Hehe, there is confusion, but in any case I think there is no much problem as only some review users can have a copy of the game, that really doesn't affect to your number of copies to sell, and maybe is a reward for those who use their time making reviews.

There is only ever one version of your game. If you want to hide some options when running in trial mode, you can check the Guide.IsTrialMode property. Games are not required to check this at all, though. Even if you don't write any special code for this, you will still get a good trial mode experience, because the framework handles the most important things for you automatically.

For instance, we will enforce the time limit, and bring up a "hey, your free trial ran out - do you want to buy the game or quit?" screen when this runs out. So for most games that only care about the time limit, everything just works without them having to write any special code.

The only other limitation we enforce about trial mode games is they can't use networking. Again we enforce this for you: the gamer privilege for networking will appear as false when you are in trial mode, just the same as if they were a child or Silver account, and we'll throw an exception if you try to use networking while in trial mode. So again you don't have to write any special trial code for this: it will appear to your game exactly the same as any of the many other reasons networking might not be available (Silver account, child with parental controls set, etc).

For testing and reviewing your game before it is released to consumers, you have several options:

• In the Xbox UI, you have the option to launch the game in full or trial mode. Reviewers can use this to check whether it behaves differently in the two modes, and make sure both versions are sensible.
• You can use the Guide.SimulateTrialMode property to make it behave like trial mode is on, even when it really isn't - useful for dev testing if you want to debug a problem that only occurs in trial mode.
• If you call the Guide.ShowMarketplace API while running the game as a developer or reviewer, this obviously cannot really take you to Marketplace, since the game isn't up there yet - instead you get a "this is a simulation screen for testing - do you want to simulate purchasing it now?" message, and if you say yes, we'll switch you from trial mode to not trial mode.

Wow, what a COMPLETE information!, I think there is no more questions about this. Thanks for it.

Shawn Hargreaves:

For instance, we will enforce the time limit, and bring up a "hey, your free trial ran out - do you want to buy the game or quit?" screen when this runs out.

If you're allowed to answer, will this screen be customizable by our game? For instance do we provide the background image for the framework or is it a generic buy screen?

It's a generic screen. I assume we'll have your game title in there, but you don't get to customize it. Presumably by that point they've already been playing the game for long enough to know what it is they're deciding whether to buy :-)

Also the time limit is per-run, so if they still aren't sure, they can always just quit out and launch the game again to play it for a second trial.

Shawn Hargreaves:

It's a generic screen. I assume we'll have your game title in there, but you don't get to customize it. Presumably by that point they've already been playing the game for long enough to know what it is they're deciding whether to buy :-)

Also the time limit is per-run, so if they still aren't sure, they can always just quit out and launch the game again to play it for a second trial.

Both valid points, however my concern is that consumers are used to the XBLA experience where the buy screen has some customized display with a couple screenshots and maybe some bullet points of what they get by unlocking the full game. I think by not having that available for XBLCG it does us developers a great disservice because our consumers will not know why they should bother paying for our game unless we advertise that in-game. And if we're already doing it in-game, it defeats the generic buy screen. I bet it's too late, but I put up a Connect issue for this. :)

They do have an icon for our game too - maybe that can display that on the screen with the name.

Of course once we know the timer limit we can interrupt earlier and ask the user if they want to buy and THEN take them to the buy screen. At least that way the user will feel they initiated the buy and will associate the decision with their action.

 

Shawn Hargreaves:

It's a generic screen. I assume we'll have your game title in there, but you don't get to customize it. Presumably by that point they've already been playing the game for long enough to know what it is they're deciding whether to buy :-)

Also the time limit is per-run, so if they still aren't sure, they can always just quit out and launch the game again to play it for a second trial.

So that opens up another issue... if they still arent sure, they can get a second trial.. so how many of those 'trials' can they get?

For a lot of games thats not going to be an issue.. but for example, using my game Kollectiv, its a casual puzzle game.. something people play for a few minutes, then are done till they want to play again. Again, I load spider solitaire and play a game, 20 minutes later im done until I want to play again in a few days. With that kind of playing habit, and if the 'trial' is say 30 minutes, that wouldnt be much incentive to purchase the game.. not when they can keep getting another 'trial'. Some people will say lock out levels, or disable particular features, but in a puzzle game like this there isnt a whole lot you can limit..

Nothing says you can't make the time limit shorter than that imposed by XBLCG, or stop the game at some predetermined point in the game (a few steps before the player wins).  You could also limit the number of times the game can be played, though I suppose the user could delete any savegame data.  (Assuming that trial mode games can save data -- I seem to remember this question being asked but don't remember if there was an official answer).  If the price isn't prohibitive, people may be willing to pay just for the privilege of keeping game statistics and high scores.

Cdxrd:

Shawn Hargreaves:

It's a generic screen. I assume we'll have your game title in there, but you don't get to customize it. Presumably by that point they've already been playing the game for long enough to know what it is they're deciding whether to buy :-)

Also the time limit is per-run, so if they still aren't sure, they can always just quit out and launch the game again to play it for a second trial.

So that opens up another issue... if they still arent sure, they can get a second trial.. so how many of those 'trials' can they get?

For a lot of games thats not going to be an issue.. but for example, using my game Kollectiv, its a casual puzzle game.. something people play for a few minutes, then are done till they want to play again. Again, I load spider solitaire and play a game, 20 minutes later im done until I want to play again in a few days. With that kind of playing habit, and if the 'trial' is say 30 minutes, that wouldnt be much incentive to purchase the game.. not when they can keep getting another 'trial'. Some people will say lock out levels, or disable particular features, but in a puzzle game like this there isnt a whole lot you can limit..

If its like the rest of games on XBLA - there is no limit. I can play each game demo as many times as I want. This is why the XNA team expose a flag that tells you if you are in demo mode. You would have to use that to restrict some part of the game. On XBLA they usually dangle the achievements in front of you but we dont have that so you will have to do something like stop the game when they get up to a certain score, or hide other modes or something.

Thanks for the clarification.. I'm just one of those people who wants to have his cake and eat it to. I want people to buy the game, but I also hate disabling features for a demo for people. That isn't a good way to make money in this business, but.. lol.. ah well, guess I will have to think about some different ideas when the time comes.. someone give me a 360 now so I can use the XBCG.. =)

I think you should get a 360 (sounds like you don't have one), and try it out. That's how I'm handling what was called the "out of game" experience. What do OTHER games do? Buy a few games, sign in, sign out, trial, purchased... You'll get an idea of what gamers expect. In reference to "disabling features isn't a good way to make money in this business.", I'd say that's a bit of a generalization. Essentially all the games on XBLA disable some single player features during trial mode, and of course, no LIVE multiplayer (and I think no local multiplayer either). And I'd say people are making lots of money on LIVE! So... whether good or bad, it's something that 360 gamers have come to accept.

Shawn Hargreaves:

It's a generic screen. I assume we'll have your game title in there, but you don't get to customize it. Presumably by that point they've already been playing the game for long enough to know what it is they're deciding whether to buy :-)

 

It would be nice to be able to give the player some idea of what extra stuff they can expect in the full game, even if it was just passing the API a short list of things to put in bullet points and perhaps an image to accompany them.

PrettyBoyTim:

Shawn Hargreaves:

It's a generic screen. I assume we'll have your game title in there, but you don't get to customize it. Presumably by that point they've already been playing the game for long enough to know what it is they're deciding whether to buy :-)

 

It would be nice to be able to give the player some idea of what extra stuff they can expect in the full game, even if it was just passing the API a short list of things to put in bullet points and perhaps an image to accompany them.

I was reading through a Gamefest Slideshow and that is one good way to sell an Arcade title. What I dont get is why dosent trial versions allow networking. Hurts people that are making absolute multiplayer games like ShadowRun (just an example) or Net Rumble. GarageGames put online multiplayer in a trial version of Marble Blast Ultra and it did well.

According to the Schizoid post mortem XBLA games are not allowed to have NETWORKED multiplayer in demos, though you can do splitscreen (wonder if you can do system link).. are you sure marble blast implemented it?

 

 

The ZMan:

According to the Schizoid post mortem XBLA games are not allowed to have NETWORKED multiplayer in demos, though you can do splitscreen (wonder if you can do system link).. are you sure marble blast implemented it?

 

 

Yes, though it was a long time ago (rules for XBLA titles might have been different then). You couldnt send invites and multiplayer was rather limited (only having a small number of players in a game and only one map to play on).

One question I haven't seen answered here is exactly how long the trial time is. That's what I'd like to know. Perhaps MS hasn't decided yet.

Information on the exact amount of time hasn't been released (unless I'm getting senile, which is a possibility).

Well it doesn't matter that much really when I think about it, because you can empose your own limit if you like. Our game is a party game with 3 minute matches, and I think that with say a 20 minute limit, people would just restart the trial game and never buy the real deal, so we will probably have our own time limit or limit on the number of games you can play in one sitting, aswell as limiting the game content.