The Nov 08 issue of OXM features a 4 page article on XNA GS. Among other things there's some words of wisdom from our own George Clingerman (I'm so jealous!). One footnote indicates that the next issue will examine some of the games that have been released.

Go XNA GS! :)

That's cool news for sure!

Wait? What? Oh crap. What did I say? Hopefully it was something good....

George Clingerman:

Wait? What? Oh crap. What did I say? Hopefully it was something good....

I think it was something like "You guys will never be as good a game developer as me" or something like that. ;) :D

George Clingerman:

Wait? What? Oh crap. What did I say? Hopefully it was something good....

Three things, actually.

First quote:

"Take a couple of weeks to learn C#," says George Clingerman, webmaster of XNADevelopment.com and a Microsoft MVP in the XNA Community. "You don't need to become an expert, but having a basic grasp of how to use C#, separate from the XNA framework, will do wonders for how fast you catch on."

Second quote:

"Game development can be tricky and you're going to have questions," says Clingerman. "Without knowing where to go for help, you're going to get frustrated very quickly and give up. Knowing where you can go for help is probably the No. 1 step, and the Microsoft XNA forums are the best place for that."

Third quote:

"You're not going to be making World of Warcraft or even the original 8-bit Mario - but if you're creative, you can make a fun game with just a couple of moving sprites on the screen. The less knowledge you have, the more creative you have to be with what you know. Sometimes that's how the best game ideas are born."

And when you separate that from the article, it's a pretty good three-step program for a new XNA developer. Learn C#, engage with the community, and understand your limits.

The rest of the article is an entertaining read, especially when the authors can't figure out how to read the gamepad and give up. If I were to give one piece of advice to new XNA developers, it would be that this is precisely what most people do: they start a project, hit a problem, and give up. What separates the actual game developer from the wannabe isn't that they don't hit problems, it's that when they inevitably hit problems - we all do - they keep going. I don't hold it against the author, because he's got a deadline to meet, after all; but I'd like to see him jump back in here and finish what he started, potentially with a follow-up article later after he's accomplished the goal.

In any case, I'd be perfectly happy to teach him how to read the freakin' gamepad. ;)

CDarklock:

The rest of the article is an entertaining read, especially when the authors can't figure out how to read the gamepad and give up. If I were to give one piece of advice to new XNA developers, it would be that this is precisely what most people do: they start a project, hit a problem, and give up. What separates the actual game developer from the wannabe isn't that they don't hit problems, it's that when they inevitably hit problems - we all do - they keep going. I don't hold it against the author, because he's got a deadline to meet, after all; but I'd like to see him jump back in here and finish what he started, potentially with a follow-up article later after he's accomplished the goal.

In any case, I'd be perfectly happy to teach him how to read the freakin' gamepad. ;)

 

Hi gang, I'm the author of the article. I was embarassed as hell to not be able to get any further, but you're exactly right -- I had a deadline and I started the project too late to really dig into it further than chronicling the failure. It actually started a few months ago, when I bought the books and asked George's advice and started reading up; then it got shelved for several issues while other things took priority. I was supposed to do that story over a long period of time, and we were supposed to have multiple people learning, and...well, that would be a book, really. What I did was try to crash through in three weeks and I'm sure all of you with experience recognize that as a recipe for fail cake. Ultimately it was a relief to simply turn the article in and walk away. 

The response to the article has been positive so far, and nobody says they feel discouraged about XNA, which is good. That was really not the goal; the goal was to simply offer some advice and warnings to anybody who thought it was going to be easy, like Games Factory or Klik & Play. Hopefully it inspired as many smart people to learn the right way as it did discourage the people who would simply come to your forums and ask dumb questions.

I did have a reader ask for permission to make the game we failed to make. By all means, do -- but make it a better game than we were going to make. Ours was more an excercise than a game anyway.

More coverage of community games is coming; it won't be in the next issue after all, but probably starting in the winter issues.

Dan OXM:

Hi gang, I'm the author of the article. I was embarassed as hell to not be able to get any further, but you're exactly right -- I had a deadline and I started the project too late to really dig into it further than chronicling the failure.

But you chronicled it! That was awesome. A lot of people would have caved to the embarrassment and replaced the article with something bland and worthless. This is my favorite article to date about XNA GS. George's involvement was a big part of that - "hey, I know him!" - but the matter-of-fact presentation of your experience was something sorely lacking in the writeups thus far.

There are too many people talking about their successes in XNA GS, and not enough talking about their failures. Nick Gravelyn has been addressing that somewhat, and I could help address it with a chronicle of my storage woes in Railgun... but I'm embarrassed and keep putting it off. I should probably sit down and make myself do that this weekend.

It was a great article. I look forward to reading more coverage from you in the coming months; perhaps you could finish your game and put it on CG to see what happens.

Dan OXM:

That was really not the goal; the goal was to simply offer some advice and warnings to anybody who thought it was going to be easy, like Games Factory or Klik & Play. Hopefully it inspired as many smart people to learn the right way as it did discourage the people who would simply come to your forums and ask dumb questions.

This is actually a great angle... too many members of the press listen to the sound bytes that Microsoft feed them and then misinterpret 'easier' as 'easy'... Programming is not easy if you have no experience and Game programming is on the high end of the scale (IMO). Heck did you see the clown who misunderstood so much he thought you could write games uisng Microsoft word? (http://blogusmaximus.net/archive/2008/02/22/119912.aspx saldy original article got taken down but Chris quoted the main part).

Is the source for your game up anywhere? Do you have forum discussions about the article on the OXM site? Seems like a great community project for your readers to work on it as a group. I'm sure plenty of us would join in too. Get the source on codeplex - have a short update every month in the magazine... Oh and the other MVPs are MUCH better looking than George and we would all love our pictures in the magazine..

I honestly thought that OXM had canned the article because they had emailed me so long ago I had totally forgotten about it. I really did think it was nice honest article though and really, giving people a realistic taste of how hard it is to make a game (even with great tools) does more for our community than promising hopefully game developers they'll be whipping out polished innovative groundbreaking games in no time.

I really enjoyed the article, but then I was in and and I LOVE to read about myself  :)  Thanks for giving me that opportunity and The ZMan is right if you're looking to do future articles, I know a ton of guys out there chomping at the bit to help out. (better looking than me is debatable... ;) )

The ZMan:

Heck did you see the clown who misunderstood so much he thought you could write games uisng Microsoft word? (http://blogusmaximus.net/archive/2008/02/22/119912.aspx saldy original article got taken down but Chris quoted the main part).

Original article here

Dan OXM:

Hi gang, I'm the author of the article. I was embarrassed as hell to not be able to get any further, but you're exactly right -- I had a deadline and I started the project too late to really dig into it further than chronicling the failure.

 

Woah, I'm absolutely shocked and amazed- an OXM employee.To more percise its the fabled Dan himself, I read OXM a lot and indeed this article proved useful. No matter what people and game companeis are doing, they all seem to get the "Dead-line" plauge at some point in our daily life, big or small, no matter what it is for. So in the future hopefully all we can do is build and learn from our own mistakes as an indevidual, Team, or Company. Also, Great job on the the articles Dan, keep up the work. I enjoy always reading your work and all of OXM back to back. I can't wait till my next Magazine(OXM) gets to my studio mail-box.

Jim Hunter:

The ZMan:

Heck did you see the clown who misunderstood so much he thought you could write games uisng Microsoft word? (http://blogusmaximus.net/archive/2008/02/22/119912.aspx saldy original article got taken down but Chris quoted the main part).

Original article here

Thats why I never go to 3rd party sources for this kind of stuff. I want to know things about Xbox, I go to the people at Xbox (Xbox.com). I never watched the news ever sence the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election where 2 guys are compaining about the other person. The Colbert Report makes more sense then Fox.

Forgot to say this, Thanks for the encoragement George Clingerman! 

Im trying to polish up my ideas as I learn C#. It isnt easy, but Im getting there! :-) 

I never heard of XNA GS, but what does 'GS' in XNA GS stands for?

I think Official Xbox Magazine has lots of variety than XNA GS, true?

So, XNA GS is all about game publishing and designing, and Official Xbox Magazine is the variety of Xbox, Xbox news, Xbox games, and XNA.

Firebox:

I never heard of XNA GS, but what does 'GS' in XNA GS stands for?

Game Studio. It's the software you add to Visual Studio so you can write games using the XNA framework.

Firebox:

I think Official Xbox Magazine has lots of variety than XNA GS, true?

You're misreading the thread title. OXM did a review of XNA GS. They are not competing products.

CDarklock:

Game Studio. It's the software you add to Visual Studio so you can write games using the XNA framework.

Thank you, that's all I want to know.

CDarklock:

You're misreading the thread title. OXM did a review of XNA GS. They are not competing products.

My apology for misreading, because I don't understand this thread. I'll read the article news where somebody post this thread.

Now let me get this straight, as I was saying, that's why I join this XNA club, because I want to make Microsoft and everybody happy with my games that I was thinking of. For Chris Satchell, sheez, why he charged $99 a year for peer-to-peer review, I think I don't know if it cause money damage from his pocket(depends what his benefits are or how much money does he have). For us, did you think we can design games using Microsoft Words? The answer is, no. We use C# or C++ to create games for Xbox LIVE, or where. And we know the games don't infringe the intelletual company, and it doesn't infringe other games and other game companys.

I didn't made it up about what I'm saying, because I read the rest of the article about it.

The ZMan:

Is the source for your game up anywhere? Do you have forum discussions about the article on the OXM site? Seems like a great community project for your readers to work on it as a group. I'm sure plenty of us would join in too. Get the source on codeplex - have a short update every month in the magazine... Oh and the other MVPs are MUCH better looking than George and we would all love our pictures in the magazine..

I did not release the source because THAT was too embarrassing to release. Plus, it was basically non-functional; I was trying to cut and paste from tutorials and whatnot, and it didn't actually compile and execute.

Reader response to the article was favorable, it wasn't over anybody's head, and I think some people just liked to see the media get pwned by real gaming tools.  :) But I do have a lovely afterword for the next issue: A reader said "You know, I think I can make your Simon/memory game" and actually did. He sent us the build and everything. His implementation was actually much better (and simpler) than what I was seeing in my head. So that will run in the Jan 09 letter col with a screenshot, too.We failed, but it inspired someone else to succeed. So that feels good.

Going forward, we are going to do a spotlight on a community game in development every issue, meet the people behind it, show screens and photos of the team and the whole bit. No disrespect to Gears of War 2, but XNA games are the most exciting thing going on for all the reasons you folks already know -- so I want to pass that knowledge on. We're going to kick it off with a feature profiling multiple creators in the Jan 09 issue (which we're writing now) and then follow it up with a profile in each mag after that. 

Dan

Very cool! Thanks for stopping by and filling us in. Just a question - how are you going to find the community games that are in development? :)

Dan OXM:

Going forward, we are going to do a spotlight on a community game in development every issue, meet the people behind it, show screens and photos of the team and the whole bit. No disrespect to Gears of War 2, but XNA games are the most exciting thing going on for all the reasons you folks already know -- so I want to pass that knowledge on. We're going to kick it off with a feature profiling multiple creators in the Jan 09 issue (which we're writing now) and then follow it up with a profile in each mag after that. 

Dan

That's freaking awesome-tastic!  You just convinced me to resubscribe, as I'd let my subscription expire a few months ago.

Jim Perry:

Very cool! Thanks for stopping by and filling us in. Just a question - how are you going to find the community games that are in development? :)

I have had a few helpful suggestions from Microsoft's PR team -- Jessica Lange is a big supporter of the program and my main contact through official channels -- but the rest I figured would be forum lurking. I have a CC sub so I can check out games in for peer review, and I generally troll creator blogs to see what new projects are in development before that.

In other words, you are all being watched.  :)

Dan OXM:

In other words, you are all being watched.  :)

Big Brother, is that you?!? :)

Great stuff here - I need to renew my OXM subscription too.  I remember I was using the game dics to build some sort of space station, but don't remember what happened there...:)

I was also confused on the relationship between the magazine and the console/Microsoft.   It's entirely unbiased reviews?

CVO:

I was also confused on the relationship between the magazine and the console/Microsoft.   It's entirely unbiased reviews?

A good question and one I think a lot of people wonder, sometimes with curiosity, sometimes with...let's say "skepticism." We are unbiased -- though I like to say, we're biased in that we like good games and don't like the bad ones.

It all gets into the business arrangement, really. OXM is published by Future US, and like a third-party accessory manufacturer or a software publisher, we pay MS a licensing fee for the 360 affiliation and use of the brand (and we need that license to produce the demo disc). We can't make a disc that plays on retail 360s without Microsoft; we go through the same approval and cert process as any other game developer, but we do it on a monthly basis. The editorial side of the magazine is independent and MS does not dictate our content nor do they tell us what scores we should give games. They would not have given Crackdown a 7, I can tell you that. But when we gave Gears of War a 10, you know, clearly it's not because we liked the game, it's because we're corrupt and being paid off or whatever. You know how internet logic works.

So the short verison is, we are friends and we pay them for the privelege, and sometimes we get access to people and stories that would be difficult to do otherwise. But we're not owned or operated by Microsoft, and our editorial really is generated independently.

Dan OXM:

They would not have given Crackdown a 7, I can tell you that.

One of the few times you guys were wrong. Crackdown was a blast and rated at least an 8/8.5! ;) :P

Just so you know there's 2 community games now available (you are in the NXE beta, right?). :) We expect to see a Fruit Wars review next issue. :D

For anybody who didn't get a chance to read it or missed the issue, the article in quesiton is now posted on our website: 

http://tinyurl.com/oxmvsxna