Matthew Doucette:

...I always that the shoot'em up genre is not going to win, because so many poor shoot'em ups have killed the genre.  It was my goal for 10 or more years to revive the genre with a shooter that brings backs what was fun about them.

I should add that the shoot'em up genre has been unfairly judged by the poor releases in it.  It can be great.  Most shooters are just no fun.  Geometry Wars showcases they can be fun...

(Dreaming...) It would be nice to win DBP or land a contract, as then it would give the resources we need to do our game right.  I'm sure all of you feel that way!

Feep:

arrogancy:

Heh, "soon" could be anything from hours to a month, it hasn't changed anything with me :) I started looking for a new job once I didn't hear anything by Thursday ;)

Your game WILL sell, man, if you can finish it. Are you giving up if you don't win...?

No, but I'll have to spend a lot less time working on it because I'll need to get another job to pay the bills so it will come out later than it would otherwise. Don't worry, I plan on finishing, no matter what :)

................................................................................................................................................hrm.

Even though being one of the top four(six) would be awesome, I am more realisticly hoping for the oportiunity to publish our game on the XBox in any way. CG is not starting in Germany on Nov. 19th so being offered the early CG oportunity would be great. It is just impossible to really judge the games and our own chances though, since we couldn't play most of the games. Right now I am even more excited to see the winning games rather than just hoping it would be ours. I hope "soon" means today but it could just as well be monday.

Just wondering, after I have re-read the rules. There should be 10 semi finalists and 4 out of 10 will be the winner/finalists, am i right?

And semi finalists might get a chance for XBLA publishing contract? Was this the case for last year too? Or only the winners are given publishing contract?

If that is the case, being semi-finalists is also not bad.. of course the best is being the winner.. but you know getting to XBLA is pretty good too..

TCT:

Right now I am even more excited to see the winning games rather than just hoping it would be ours.

Strange enough, this is how I feel.  It will motivate me, none-the-less, to see any of you accomplish your dreams.  I know that I can do it, too.  And I fully intend on giving it more than just one shot.

Matthew Doucette:

TCT:

Right now I am even more excited to see the winning games rather than just hoping it would be ours.

Strange enough, this is how I feel.  It will motivate me, none-the-less, to see any of you accomplish your dreams.  I know that I can do it, too.  And I fully intend on giving it more than just one shot.

...and I think this community idea is really going to make some of us shine...

tep360:

And semi finalists might get a chance for XBLA publishing contract? Was this the case for last year too? Or only the winners are given publishing contract?

Last year (and this year) the publishing agreement prize is 'the OPPORTUNITY of an Xbox Live publishing contract'. Notice the wording. I guess this means that if there are no games at all that the XBLA guys like or feel that they can publish then there can still be monetary winners.

Last year the way they announced it was that they were originally considering one XBLA publishing agreement but after looking at all the games they decided to offer 4. So there is certainly a chance they could do the same thing again....

remember in willy wonka and the chocolate factory where they show all the people with the tickets and then one guy lies and says he has the last one? i'm waiting for people to start announcing that they've been contacted and then i give up hope, but then it comes out that the last guy was lying and then i find a "golden ticket" in my mail box....


....yeahhhh my agonizing for the results is starting to get creative since i can't stand regular F5'ing anymore

Myself am ok with just the publishing invitation,but an extra LCD and a bigger bed can't hurt :P
I'm more concerned about my modeler, who is short on finances and works 12 hrs/day modelling cars and got no time for the game. Even 25% of the 4th cash price would help him be work-free for several months.

Hi guys, I tried to don't take a look at the forums until today... but I'm going crazy about the results too... All of us spent days of hard work and there are so many entries. I know for sure that all of us are taking a look at the website almost every 15 minutes, and it would be nice that everybody could get just a little award to encorage ourself to never give up and do everyday better. Good luck to everybody! and NEVER STOP TO DREAM!

nikeman:

it would be nice that everybody could get just a little award to encorage ourself to never give up and do everyday better

You did receive a 1 year Creator's Club Subscription for submitting a game.

And simply knowing that you got to finish a game and submit it into the competition is an great achievement by itself.

I'm thinking it would be nice to get a less impersonal thank-you?  I know it would be good to feel appreciated even if your game doesn't make the final list..

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned I love writing games and winning or losing this competition will make no difference to that, although it probably will to my self-esteem!  I find it can drain my enthusiasm if all I'm doing is trying to pander to everyones taste instead of just being creative and enjoying the experience.

So IMO write what you want and if people like it then great, if not then at least you enjoyed yourself and probably learned a few things too.

I'm not really in a position in life where I can make games as a "hobby" for instance; so it's good to remember that different people are in different situations. It is just a 'failure' for some of the entrants and I sympathize with myself and anyone else that this applies to. Now that the winners have possibly been contacted given that last post from within Microsoft, lots of people that I've talked to are writing it off.

As I said earlier, for some people, this was just a pitch; and "the learning experience" does nothing for us - we need to know exactly why our titles were not what they were looking for or we don't get anything out of it except maybe a few months of programming experience and a warning to stay away from the gaming industry since it's so subjectivity-based. We already know how to make "fun games"; we need to know what is required to make a game that a distributor or a publisher will buy. And player feedback doesn't tell you that when everyone basically liked your game and thought it should have been top four which has been the case for ten games I've seen here (meaning that some will, by default, not make the cut even though they appealed to their intended audience). So yeah, it's easy to see why this would just be a failure.

Spend some time in these forums or gamedev.net and you will soon realise that there are thousands of wannbes - from the guy who thinks he is a game designer but won't share his ideas in case you steal them to the guy who has never written a line of code but thinks he can write a MMORPG they have one common end game:

99% of them will never finish a game

They will argue with you in the forums, they will link you to their team website which has shoutouts to their friends, code name for the team and possibly even concept art.... but visit the site in 12 months and it will look the same as it ever did.

Everyone who entered a game in DBP is better than every one of those folks. You are already closer to a career in game development than most of the people here! There is no Failure (well other than the guy who tried to steal FitBa - he just sucks!)

 

I couldn't agree more with ZMan's post.  It reminds me of Joel Spolsky talking about finding hire-worthy software developers.  There were two skills he mentioned he wanted:  SMART and GETTING THINGS DONE, and they don't always coincide.  All of us who entered GOT THINGS DONE, so be proud.  I'm not saying you are smart or not, just that if you can get things done, you'll go further in life and closer to your goals.  You are in the top percentile.

arrogancy:

I'm not really in a position in life where I can make games as a "hobby" for instance; so it's good to remember that different people are in different situations. It is just a 'failure' for some of the entrants and I sympathize with myself and anyone else that this applies to. Now that the winners have possibly been contacted given that last post from within Microsoft, lots of people that I've talked to are writing it off.

As I said earlier, for some people, this was just a pitch; and "the learning experience" does nothing for us - we need to know exactly why our titles were not what they were looking for or we don't get anything out of it except maybe a few months of programming experience and a warning to stay away from the gaming industry since it's so subjectivity-based. We already know how to make "fun games"; we need to know what is required to make a game that a distributor or a publisher will buy. And player feedback doesn't tell you that when everyone basically liked your game and thought it should have been top four which has been the case for ten games I've seen here (meaning that some will, by default, not make the cut even though they appealed to their intended audience). So yeah, it's easy to see why this would just be a failure.

I strongly disagree that it's a failure. You created something that you can show off in your portfolio/resume - which is really the best way to get into the industry the "normal way".

I can talk from experience that it isn't a waste at all as I am a professional game developer (programmer) at a local studio that develops games for all common platforms (console and PC). Showing off something you have done is really the best thing you can do in your resume. That's how I - and many of my colleagues - got into the industry.

My personal motivation for entering the contest was to do something I don't do at work - therefore I did just about everything _except_ programming (I get enough of that in my job), which means art, audio, game design/level design. I did not touch a single line of code in our Dream-Build-Play project (well, unless you count scripting...).

If you really want to get into the industry, not winning Dream-Build-Play is not really a stopper at all. Just having completed a full game is the key point, winning would just be the icing on the cake and would give one more leverage in job interviews.

Of course one has to realize that the "real" commercial game industry works differently than the more "auteuresque" independent game scene. You will probably have to start from the bottom, and can't expect to immediately have everyone listen to and follow your ideas. But really, it's actually better to have some "lowly foot soldier" work experience than starting off as a "star" right away. It gives one the right perspective of working in a team, and a better understanding of how things mesh together in the various disciplines (art, programming, game design, quality assurance, project management, audio) that make up a game project.

That said, I don't think that not being contacted is an indication of not being in the Top 6. "Checking eligibility" can mean just about anything... So everyone, no need for worries (I hope!).

GebauzChris:

I can talk from experience that it isn't a waste at all as I am a professional game developer (programmer)

Interesting.  What game did you submit to Dream Build Play?

Matthew Doucette:

GebauzChris:

I can talk from experience that it isn't a waste at all as I am a professional game developer (programmer)

Interesting.  What game did you submit to Dream Build Play?

I'm on the team that created "Jagersed", though I'm not the "main man". All the audio is by me, and I also did some art assets, some level editing, some scripting - whatever my free time allowed. As I already mentioned, I did no programming because due to work, programming at home really makes me sick ;-) since I already get enough of that at work.

My teammates, including our main guy who is also the programmer, aren't in the industry though, we're basically a small group of people who know each other from university (some already graduated, some still students; we're all in some way associated with the Institute of Computer Graphics at the Vienna University of Technology in Austria though) who just create games and other stuff in their freetime.

GebauzChris:

I strongly disagree that it's a failure. You created something that you can show off in your portfolio/resume - which is really the best way to get into the industry the "normal way".

I can talk from experience that it isn't a waste at all as I am a professional game developer (programmer) at a local studio that develops games for all common platforms (console and PC). Showing off something you have done is really the best thing you can do in your resume. That's how I - and many of my colleagues - got into the industry.

 

I agree - for many people, this will prove to be a stepping stone. I wasn't speaking for everyone, only for a specific situation - mine, that may be shared with others.

I'm 29 years old and am in a career; I can't afford to "start over;" (with the lower paygrade that comes with that) and the only way I see myself in the games industry is independent style on the side unless I made enough money to segue to full time development. My game isn't even worthwhile to put in my resume/portfolio for my career (art direction/graphic design). For me, DBP was part of a way to see if it was profitable to go with the game idea and artistic vision that I had. I had an idea to make an in depth exploration 2D game on systems where almost none exist. If it was profitable, I could take the few months it would take to finish the game; have that going on the side, and then perhaps segue into game production as a career. If it's not, it's a failed idea, and will be put on hiatus, probably for good.

If you're younger, or in a better situation in life where you can make a career change like that, starting from the bottom - then this contest is beneficial to you, win or lose, I agree. For someone like me, though (I have no interest in designing button mashing or casual games, which I do see as profitable; I may as well stick where I am if that's what I'm designing), there's no real appreciable upside (barring good luck/unforseen things). It was a gamble always, and I always planned around a loss - but the only thing I'm taking out of this contest are a bunch of question marks.

GebauzChris:

If you really want to get into the industry, not winning Dream-Build-Play is not really a stopper at all. Just having completed a full game is the key point, winning would just be the icing on the cake and would give one more leverage in job interviews.

Of course one has to realize that the "real" commercial game industry works differently than the more "auteuresque" independent game scene. You will probably have to start from the bottom, and can't expect to immediately have everyone listen to and follow your ideas. But really, it's actually better to have some "lowly foot soldier" work experience than starting off as a "star" right away. It gives one the right perspective of working in a team, and a better understanding of how things mesh together in the various disciplines (art, programming, game design, quality assurance, project management, audio) that make up a game project.

Great post GebauzChris. That is just how it works in reality for 90% of the ppl. You can work your way up or take the risk and found your own company/start-up and either way having made a game is great key to open some doors. Only in rare cases someone will start out in a leading position in the established industry. You need references. Winning contests can be a very good reference but as i said before its not guaranteed success. More important is to work towards a goal and keep that in focus, finish things along the road and have confidence in what you do.

arrogancy:

My game isn't even worthwhile to put in my resume/portfolio for my career (art direction/graphic design)

That is not true.  Bring a few screen shots in your portfolio to an interview.  Show off your 'diversity'.  Not that it is necessary as a business software developer, but I fully plan on putting my community games in my resume/portfolio.

arrogancy:

I agree - for many people, this will prove to be a stepping stone. I wasn't speaking for everyone, only for a specific situation - mine, that may be shared with others.

I'm 29 years old and am in a career; I can't afford to "start over;" (with the lower paygrade that comes with that) and the only way I see myself in the games industry is independent style on the side unless I made enough money to segue to full time development.  For me, DBP was part of a way to see if it was profitable to go with the game idea and artistic vision that I had. I had an idea to make an in depth exploration 2D game on systems where almost none exist. If it was profitable, I could take the few months it would take to finish the game; have that going on the side, and then perhaps segue into game production as a career. If it's not, it's a failed idea, and will be put on hiatus, probably for good.

If you're younger, or in a better situation in life where you can make a career change like that, starting from the bottom - then this contest is beneficial to you, win or lose, I agree. For someone like me, though (I have no interest in designing button mashing or casual games, which I do see as profitable; I may as well stick where I am if that's what I'm designing), there's no real appreciable upside (barring good luck/unforseen things). It was a gamble always, and I always planned around a loss - but the only thing I'm taking out of this contest are a bunch of question marks.

It sounds like you want the reward and none of the risk.  Even if you won all of the risk you are trying to avoid will still be there.

For every 50 entries where someone could say:

• If I just had better art.
• If I just had more time.
• If I just had someone teach me a programming concept.
• If someone could just recognize my genius.

There is the 1 entry where regardless of situation, the job got done.

That will be the winner.

As far as I could tell, I think you did well on your entry for the amount of time you spent on it.  It is not a failed idea.  Keep on working on it no matter what and put it out on Community Games.

Otherwise, you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place.

arrogancy:

I'm 29 years old and am in a career; I can't afford to "start over;" (with the lower paygrade that comes with that) and the only way I see myself in the games industry is independent style on the side unless I made enough money to segue to full time development. My game isn't even worthwhile to put in my resume/portfolio for my career (art direction/graphic design). For me, DBP was part of a way to see if it was profitable to go with the game idea and artistic vision that I had. I had an idea to make an in depth exploration 2D game on systems where almost none exist. If it was profitable, I could take the few months it would take to finish the game; have that going on the side, and then perhaps segue into game production as a career. If it's not, it's a failed idea, and will be put on hiatus, probably for good.

If you're younger, or in a better situation in life where you can make a career change like that, starting from the bottom - then this contest is beneficial to you, win or lose, I agree. For someone like me, though (I have no interest in designing button mashing or casual games, which I do see as profitable; I may as well stick where I am if that's what I'm designing), there's no real appreciable upside (barring good luck/unforseen things). It was a gamble always, and I always planned around a loss - but the only thing I'm taking out of this contest are a bunch of question marks.

I am in pretty much the same position as you arrogancy. I am 30 and have a full time career (non-game programming). A friend of mine (also a non-game programmer) suggested we have a go at the DBP contest when there was a month left until submission time (TerraHex). We both do game programming as a hobby and the idea is that it would be great to do it full time, but with my lifestyle, a move into the lower ranks won't work. I have 4 kids and no low end game programming job would sustain my family like my current job does. The only way I see for someone in our situation is to go independent, even winning the contest would be a weak incentive for a game company to hire into a more senior position with the little game industry experience we have. I suggest you continue working in your spare time as a hobby and work on the independent route while maintaining your current job. And if you don't have kids, you just have more time to work on it :)

Take out of the contest a finished game, examine what went right, what went wrong, and what you need to work on. I don't know about you, but I find my daily job programming server/business apps a very different beast to working on game programming. Sure, some stuff is invariably the same, but there are a large # of differences that I learned a lot with the time constraints we had (1 month).

barkers crest:

That is not true.  Bring a few screen shots in your portfolio to an interview.  Show off your 'diversity'.  Not that it is necessary as a business software developer, but I fully plan on putting my community games in my resume/portfolio.

I agree - for many people, this will prove to be a stepping stone. I wasn't speaking for everyone, only for a specific situation - mine, that may be shared with others.

It sounds like you want the reward and none of the risk.  Even if you won all of the risk you are trying to avoid will still be there.

For every 50 entries where someone could say:

• If I just had better art.
• If I just had more time.
• If I just had someone teach me a programming concept.
• If someone could just recognize my genius.

There is the 1 entry where regardless of situation, the job got done.

That will be the winner.

As far as I could tell, I think you did well on your entry for the amount of time you spent on it.  It is not a failed idea.  Keep on working on it no matter what and put it out on Community Games.

Otherwise, you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place.

No, for the type of interviews I go on, I will not be including my game in my portfolio. It serves no purpose. I do corporate marketing/branding/design. MAYBE U.I. design, and that's a gigantic MAYBE.

Also, the second part of what you said is not true. Game pitches are based on the subjective judgments of those reviewing them. You could have pitched GTA3 back in 2002 or whenever (as far as a highly successful title) to the wrong person and been turned down. There are more than 10 high level entries in this contest, and what decides the difference between those that make the top 10 and those that don't will be people's judgment. That's why I strictly say "what people are looking for" is the largest issue.

As far as risk vs. reward goes, I'm looking at things from a business standpoint and not an ideological one. I could afford to spend half of the total dev time (of which I ended up ahead of, actually) with no projected return. There is a point where it ceases to be financially feasible, and better just to put that time to other use. That's all I'm saying.

Syldrak:

I am in pretty much the same position as you arrogancy. I am 30 and have a full time career (non-game programming). A friend of mine (also a non-game programmer) suggested we have a go at the DBP contest when there was a month left until submission time (TerraHex). We both do game programming as a hobby and the idea is that it would be great to do it full time, but with my lifestyle, a move into the lower ranks won't work. I have 4 kids and no low end game programming job would sustain my family like my current job does. The only way I see for someone in our situation is to go independent, even winning the contest would be a weak incentive for a game company to hire into a more senior position with the little game industry experience we have. I suggest you continue working in your spare time as a hobby and work on the independent route while maintaining your current job. And if you don't have kids, you just have more time to work on it :)

Take out of the contest a finished game, examine what went right, what went wrong, and what you need to work on. I don't know about you, but I find my daily job programming server/business apps a very different beast to working on game programming. Sure, some stuff is invariably the same, but there are a large # of differences that I learned a lot with the time constraints we had (1 month).

Yep, there are a few people in our situation where we can basically ONLY go independent. There's someone else that said he invested over 100k in his entry. There is no way to make blanket statements for everyone as we all come from different backgrounds, etc. Some people can draw a lot more from this experience than others.

If I lose, I'll consider making a few tiny little 2 week dev time Popcap type casual games in my spare time. Seems to be pretty much the only semi-almost-guaranteed profitable route for independent devs. And possibly use that to try to fund something I actually want to make.