Jenkmeister:

They were the games shown last night at the launch party.

EDIT:  Are they the best games?  ...or maybe the most varying (innovative)?

Matthew Doucette:

Jenkmeister:

They were the games shown last night at the launch party.

So they must be the best games?

No, I don't think so.  They showed Jelly Car before, and I don't think people think it's amazing game (it's cool, but not the best game).  So, it's just to show off what XNA / XBLCG will be capable of.  It's to show innovation.  Gameplay / fun-factor wasn't a large part of the selection criteria.

That team in particular has not released a commercial game as far as I know, though. They fall somewhere between students and a development studio.

Trust me, I took the same idea of the spirit of the competition that you did, which is why I submitted the game I did/in the way I did, so I understand exactly what you're saying. Had I known the preferences beforehand, I would have done something completely different. But they still fall under the legalese of the rules, so we have to remember to phrase our statements, knowing that the winning selections all fall under the rules/preferences of the judges. All we can really legitimately complain about is if a game was already under consideration for XBLA. 

Jenkmeister:

The press releases from last night, including info on other DBP entries can be found here at our press site: http://creators.xna.com/en-US/press/XBLCG_LaunchEvent

From the winner's release:

That means that Creators Club Members can use the XSI Mod Tool and Torque X 3D to create even more amazing titles for Xbox LIVE Community Games.

Does this mean the non-commercial restriction has been lifted from the Mod Tool?

The competition was open to everyone who didn't already have a contract with XBLA.  It wasn't just open to amateurs or indie developers.  It was open to full-fledged commercial game teams, who could use their entire development studio to do art and music, and have 7 guys 'make' (i.e. program) the game, outsourcing everything else to the rest of their resources.  We are talking about a studio that has already made 16 games.  They are not hobbyists.

Having said that... thankfully they did allow amateurs and indies to enter.  I thought that was the whole point.  But, now I see that it was just a bonus for us.  And, for this, I'm glad, since, it means my game will be release onto XBLCG, without a publisher, and that's pretty damn cool. :)

But, next time, guys... if DBP and XBLCG is really about amateurs, like you claim, how about actually making it about amateurs?

I completely agree with this. I don't want to take away anything from the winnners but the competition has deviated from its definition of place for home brewers. I could not polish my entry "For Glory" because of the shortage of resources. 

I was under the impression that complexity and genre along with effort of the entry might be given some credit and MSF would come back willing to provide some resources to finish the game. Anyways I hope that with CG I might get some recognition by polishing the game and I also hope that the feedback survey that they had us answered for 20 minutes brings something useful to the table.

Congratulations to the winners.  The competition and entries were fantastic, I don't think enough thanks can be given to Microsoft for providing the tools and service they do.  Here's hoping there is a DBP 2009 and it is run as well and successfully as this years.

Here is a great summary of the winners (including videos).  The site also covers other XNA games.

PS. First post on the new site, the new editor is a huge improvement.  Firefox spell check even works! :)

rahulparthe:

I completely agree with this. I don't want to take away anything from the winnners but the competition has deviated from its definition of place for home brewers. I could not polish my entry "For Glory" because of the shortage of resources. 

I was under the impression that complexity and genre along with effort of the entry might be given some credit and MSF would come back willing to provide some resources to finish the game. Anyways I hope that with CG I might get some recognition by polishing the game and I also hope that the feedback survey that they had us answered for 20 minutes brings something useful to the table.

I'm really confused where you guys got this idea? The competition has always been open to everyone, large companies, smaller indie companies and hobbyists. And Microsoft has always said they wanted a complete game, not a demo or a game that shows what it could have been if you had only had the time? Did I miss something along the way or some post/thread/announcement somewhere that gave your a different perception?

I'm just curious because there's several of you who have popped into this thread stating this.

Jim Perry:

Jenkmeister:

The press releases from last night, including info on other DBP entries can be found here at our press site: http://creators.xna.com/en-US/press/XBLCG_LaunchEvent

From the winner's release:

That means that Creators Club Members can use the XSI Mod Tool and Torque X 3D to create even more amazing titles for Xbox LIVE Community Games.

Does this mean the non-commercial restriction has been lifted from the Mod Tool?

Only if you have a license to Torque X 3D. There was an XSI press release posted in the forums before and I asked about this.

Standard Mod Tool = Non-commercial
Mod Tool that comes with Torque X 3D = Allowed for XBLCG

I'm pretty happy to see Bennu on the first 20, all things considered. :)

RicMoura:

I'm pretty happy to see Bennu on the first 20, all things considered. :)

Not to bring anyone down, but nowhere does it say that the games featured that night are the top X number of DBP entries. So while it is really cool your game got featured, it's not any indication of placing in DBP.

It says it here:

http://creators.xna.com/en-US/launchparty

"Guests were also lucky enough to play the top 20 Dream.Build.Play games and get a real sense of the caliber of games being created with XNA Game Studio all around the world."

George Clingerman:

I'm really confused where you guys got this idea? The competition has always been open to everyone, large companies, smaller indie companies and hobbyists. And Microsoft has always said they wanted a complete game, not a demo or a game that shows what it could have been if you had only had the time? Did I miss something along the way or some post/thread/announcement somewhere that gave your a different perception?

I'm just curious because there's several of you who have popped into this thread stating this.

The overusage of the words "amateur" and "hobbyist" and the like... and emphasis on "anyone" can now make games, etc...

Check out the 2nd video on this page for an example, and listen to the words:
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/29/video-tour-new-xbox-experience-exposed-page-2/

"developed by amateur programmers"...
"anyone can build an xna game"...

It's the terminology that's been used.  Even the people at joystiq.com got this same idea.

...

It's interesting as the power of Dream Build Play is that ANYONE can enter, and the power of Community Games is that ANYONE can publish thier game.  But, that can fool you into forgetting that studios with 50x the resources are also making games, too.

Nick Gravelyn:

Not to bring anyone down, but nowhere does it say that the games featured that night are the top X number of DBP entries. So while it is really cool your game got featured, it's not any indication of placing in DBP.

It says so here:

http://creators.xna.com/en-US/press/XBLCG_LaunchEvent

"Guests were also able to play the top 20 Dream.Build.Play  games and get a real sense of the caliber of games being created with XNA Game Studio all around the world."

I think I got it from one of the threads. You are right, nobody can be restricted from entering but then I would not name the competition Dream build play. But again that's my opinion. I guess trying and having a different approach for next year is the key.

Chounard:

It says it here:

http://creators.xna.com/en-US/launchparty

"Guests were also lucky enough to play the top 20 Dream.Build.Play games and get a real sense of the caliber of games being created with XNA Game Studio all around the world."

Well geeze, why can't they just have one page with all the info instead of half a dozen pages and Word documents? Either way, I stand corrected.

Matthew Doucette:

Check out the 2nd video on this page for an example, and listen to the words:
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/29/video-tour-new-xbox-experience-exposed-page-2/

Ugh. That video isn't a good look for CG. They could at least waited until some games were up.

George Clingerman:

...And Microsoft has always said they wanted a complete game, not a demo or a game that shows what it could have been if you had only had the time? Did I miss something along the way or some post/thread/announcement somewhere that gave your a different perception?

I'm just curious because there's several of you who have popped into this thread stating this.

I played many of last year's entrants and know the state of them at the time. While they were "full games" (ie. have a beginning and an ending); most were not polished to full release status; certainly not to the level of Carnyvale. 30 minutes of gameplay in a single player game or an arcade mode without all of the 'fixins' can technically fall under "full game," but is not really what I'm referring to. Most of the entries I played had similar to last year levels of length with caveats that they could later add a few hours of gameplay onto it, or mentioning what options the "full version" would have.

The level of polish that certain winners have in this contest is not something 1 or 2 people can do in 4 months in their basement, whereas it was relatively easily feasible last year. I could do all of the art assets and comparable music in Dishwasher in a couple of months, and it would take my partner around that long to program it. Same for Blazing Birds and a few others. He and I can't do all of the physics, level design, art assets, and level editor of Carny in 4 months; nor do we have a pro CG team to turn to to do something like Battle Tennis. Therefore, since many people entered this contest (errantly) expecting it to be similar to last year's (which was mostly indie/basement devs) - they were surprised that bigger productions entered. And, since Microsoft's selling pitch was that the winner was "one guy in 4 months of work," they assumed that they would continue that theme this year.

It may have been the wrong assumption, but you can easily see where people were coming from/why they would assume this. 

George Clingerman:

I'm really confused where you guys got this idea? The competition has always been open to everyone, large companies, smaller indie companies and hobbyists. And Microsoft has always said they wanted a complete game, not a demo or a game that shows what it could have been if you had only had the time? Did I miss something along the way or some post/thread/announcement somewhere that gave your a different perception?

I'm just curious because there's several of you who have popped into this thread stating this.

I'm surprised that you are confused where this idea came from... as it seems everyone has it.  First result in Google for XBLCG:

"Microsoft to Sell Home-Brewed Xbox Games, Share Revenue"
http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/07/microsoft-to-se.html

Matthew Doucette:

George Clingerman:

I'm really confused where you guys got this idea? The competition has always been open to everyone, large companies, smaller indie companies and hobbyists. And Microsoft has always said they wanted a complete game, not a demo or a game that shows what it could have been if you had only had the time? Did I miss something along the way or some post/thread/announcement somewhere that gave your a different perception?

I'm just curious because there's several of you who have popped into this thread stating this.

I'm surprised that you are confused where this idea came from... as it seems everyone has it.  First result in Google for XBLCG:

"Microsoft to Sell Home-Brewed Xbox Games, Share Revenue"
http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/07/microsoft-to-se.html

XBLCG is not DBP. DBP, in fact, is quite the opposite. DBP was like the "try outs" to get into XBLA. XBLCG is intended for hobbyist and indie developers, but DBP was never stated with those requirements.

segarr:

Matthew Doucette:

Check out the 2nd video on this page for an example, and listen to the words:
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/29/video-tour-new-xbox-experience-exposed-page-2/

Ugh. That video isn't a good look for CG. They could at least waited until some games were up.

Man, that's pretty horrible and doesn't make us look as good as we could. My game has been on CG for a while (only naming myself since mine was shown at the conference), as has Weapon of Choice, Biology Battle, and quite a few more that have quite a lot of polish. Couldn't they have provided something like that to the media to show off as opposed to what they used? I saw another video tour that makes Community Games look sad.

The marketing department really needs to get some good videos out in circulation - this is starting to hurt my sales as they aren't raising anticipation for the service :(

Hi there guys,

First off, I did Save Jack with a mate of mine Jarred Lunt. We did do it full time but we paid for it ourselves and, I think, that's what we would need to do to get going. If I was doing a day job, my brain would be so divided. If anyone if keen, I am too :)

On another note, I got an honorable mention this year (Save Jack) and a top ten last year (Big Sky) but PLEASE could someone in the XNA team just write me an official letter or something to say that I got these. I have absolutely no proof when I tell employers these things and they just look at me with that "Sure buddy, of course you did" look. I would be so greatful.

George Clingerman:

rahulparthe:

I completely agree with this. I don't want to take away anything from the winners but the competition has deviated from its definition of place for home brewers. I could not polish my entry "For Glory" because of the shortage of resources. 

I was under the impression that complexity and genre along with effort of the entry might be given some credit and MSF would come back willing to provide some resources to finish the game. Anyways I hope that with CG I might get some recognition by polishing the game and I also hope that the feedback survey that they had us answered for 20 minutes brings something useful to the table.

I'm really confused where you guys got this idea? The competition has always been open to everyone, large companies, smaller indie companies and hobbyists. And Microsoft has always said they wanted a complete game, not a demo or a game that shows what it could have been if you had only had the time? Did I miss something along the way or some post/thread/announcement somewhere that gave your a different perception?

I'm just curious because there's several of you who have popped into this thread stating this.

It's mentioned by the XNA staff over and over and over.  One example:

http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/10/17/video-xna-community-games-on-the-nxe/
 
2:33: "This is all about them. This is about those people who've always had this dream of making a game."
2:48: "There are just hundreds of thousands of people out there; hobbyist developers.  Games create this love in people, many times.  When you love something the way people can love video games, you want to be a part of that.  You want to be making games.  You want to be contributing.  And, there are people who have been playing games their whole life, and they've been sitting there with this idea of this game, and now there's a way that they can go and create it."

Giant Killer:

Hi there guys,

First off, I did Save Jack with a mate of mine Jarred Lunt. We did do it full time but we paid for it ourselves and, I think, that's what we would need to do to get going. If I was doing a day job, my brain would be so divided. If anyone if keen, I am too :)

On another note, I got an honorable mention this year (Save Jack) and a top ten last year (Big Sky) but PLEASE could someone in the XNA team just write me an official letter or something to say that I got these. I have absolutely no proof when I tell employers these things and they just look at me with that "Sure buddy, of course you did" look. I would be so greatful.

The press release, linked off our site, should be a start for you. It talks about your game and the honarable mention. http://creators.xna.com/assets/cms/docs/marketing/xblcg_launchevent/DBP%20Winners%20Announcement.docx

I think you're misunderstanding. I'm not confused about why you thought the XNA Framework was for hobbyists, or why you thought hobbyists could release games on XBLCG or why you thought hobbyists could enter Dream Build Play and win.

I'm curious at what point in time did you think that indie shops and game companies weren't going to use it or were being encouraged not to use it, or that XNA was ONLY for hobbyists. I've been using the XNA framework from day 1, I have one of the oldest sites out there and I have always assumed that companies WOULD start using it. In fact, it wouldn't survive if it didn't.

The XNA framework is great because it makes it possible for hobbyists to release games, and play with ideas, but it's doing the same for everyone. Large companies, indie shops, hobbyists and high school kids all alike. But yes, as one poster pointed out, I guess I can see how since you hear about it being good for hobbyists over and over again, you might lose sight of how great it is for big companies too..