Hello everyone, I am putting the finishing touches to my Pac Man clone and I wonder what should I do with it. My primary goal was just to have fun and learn how to better organize my code, figure out some basic AI techniques, etc., but from what I have seen, there is no XNA Pac Man clone on the web, at least not a complete, playable one, so maybe I can contribute. (There's a flash Pac Man though but my version is better.) I'm concerned about copyrights, first. This is a strict Pac Man clone that strives to be very close to the original, no special features, no secrets, no multiplayer, etc. Can I release this in any form with the name Pac Man or will I get sued by Namco? I don't think I can make any money out of this and I don't think it's even worth trying. However, I'd like to make the source code available for other beginners like me to learn from it or maybe even improve on it. I have done my best to make the code easy and fun to read, and well organized. What's the best place to publish my project as open-source? If I do release it as open source, should I include some sort of license? GNU? In what form, ie: inside every source file, in a txt file? Thanks.

Well, we are not lawyers here, so when you're concerned about law, definitely consult them instead of the forums.

What I will say is that I have several clones on my site. I created all the art myself. I don't use the names of the original clones. And my source code is released into the wild and currently I haven't thrown a license up. My site has been up since the beginning of XNA.

Hope that helps :)

Go ahead and up it dude. I'll be happy to play it.

DrAsik100:

Can I release this in any form with the name Pac Man

NO!!!! Change the name! Like George said, we are not lawyers here, but at least, change the name.

Even if we are no lawyers here, so we can not give any advice on the legal situation, we are peer reviewers, so that part of the story we can give advice on: And as peer reviewers, one of the things we are supposed to look out for is, that none of the games uses unauthorized content. This includes using trademarks without authorization, as well as copyrighted artwork, music etc.
If a reviewer sees such, and does not have a statement from the submitter that the trademark/content is used with permission by the owner, then he is required to fail the game.
So since your game is obviously not an authorized implementation (as you have already told us), we would be required to fail it if you used the name "Pac-Man" or anything else that is too similar. Same for the artwork. Even if you didn't rip the original sprites from the original game, but created them yourself, if they look so similar to the originals that the reviewer can't see a difference, then the reviewer would also be required to fail your game. A pac-man sprite is only a few pixels, so if your sprite has [almost] the same pixels as the original, it wouldn't matter how it got these pixels - through a direct ripping or through you painstakingly re-creating each pixel in MSPaint - it would still be an unauthorized copy.

My suggestion: To be sure that your game passes peer-review, see the as-close-as-possible copy of the game that you made as a learning experience (like you already wrote yourself), but before you submit it for XBLCG, change it so that is noticably and obviously different and not the original. This includes all logos, names and other stuff that may be trademarked, and also all artwork, music and sound effects. At the end, if the game is fun now (as a close copy) it will still be fun with a different name, sprites, colors and music.

Doc

Thanks for all the opinions. I do not intend to release it for the Xbox Live Marketplace. Also, the whole game idea is to make something that resembles the original Pac Man as much as possible, so I'm not eager to modify the artwork. Not only would that ruin the original purpose, but it'd be too much work on what I consider a finished product. Yes, all the sounds are ripped from various sources, the images look pixel-per-pixel like the originals, this is pure Pac Man, just in XNA. What about Codeplex or Sourceforge ? Might they accept hosting it ? If it's impossible for legal reasons, too bad, I'll keep it for my archives and maybe upload it on my personal web page when I ever decide to create a personal web page. If anyone's interested in the source, PM me, or write at blask[underscore]prawdi[at]yahoo[dot]ca. The game's not exactly done, I'm still messing with the AI, relative speeds of everything and there's even a sound still missing. But in 2 weeks or so (I work very slowly) it should be polished and finished. (btw, sorry for my posts being all cramped, the new lines just don't seem to appear, how do you make that work?)

Teaser screenshot :

[Mod: GeorgeC - Removed screenshot since it's obviously using intellectual property illegally. Remember, we don't tolerate that here. From the FAQ.

1) Illegal usage of intellectual property.  Microsoft takes intellectual property rights very seriously.  If you post a game/image/source that uses unauthorized intellectual property, we will delete it immediately.  This includes technologies that are clearly intended to enable unauthorized use of intellectual property, such as game console emulators. In addition, Microsoft will fully cooperate with any agencies that pursue claims regarding intellectual property posted on these forums.  Please respect the work of others.  If in doubt, don't post it.  If you do post something that might be suspicious, and you have legitimate license for the IP, please clearly indicate that in your post.

]

I removed your screenshot and since you've admitted to ripping sounds and graphics from around the web, if you link to your project I'll have to remove that as well. We don't encourage or tolerate unauthorized use of intellectual property. It's highly recommended you take the time to make the game your own with your own assets either created by your or purchased by you.

Making clones is great, I enjoy making them myself. Just take the time to do it right. We're all game developers here so we take this pretty seriously.

If I understand you well, there's a "right way" to make a Pac Man clone? How can it not infringe on Namco's property and still be identifiable as a clone of Pac Man ? Should I name it "Eating Yellow Pie" ? And as far as ripping artwork goes, it would just have taken a little longer if I generated everything myself, the end result would have been the same; it's really easy to draw these sprites (I drew most of them) or generate these sounds.

Basically you can't make a clone of pac man, or even something similar without risking being sued and LOSING.  Magnavox lost a look and feel copyright lawsuit with KC Munchkin back in the early 80s and it wasn't even a "clone", but dots and maze game with a munching character.

Yes that's the conclusion I'm tending to. I wonder, though : there are so many clones of popular arcade games on the web, in flash : tetris, frogger, pac-man, you name it. Did they all get agreements with the copyright owners ?

Nope, they didn't. I'm sure some of the bigger ones have been contacted and there may even be some involved in lawsuits. I don't really know all the details, but I do know they aren't posting here :) 

On the Creators forums we just try to do what we can to follow the rules we know. Posting a clone with gameplay that emulates an original is one thing and it's murky enough we don't do anything about it for here. Gameplay being copyrighted has happened, but it's not that common yet. Either way, it's not black and white enough for us to take down gameplay clones. (like I said, I have plenty on my site)

However, posting a clone with ripped graphics is a pretty clear violation. Even when you draw them yourself, if they look like the original, we're going to have to take it down to try stay within the guidelines of the forums. It's not too hard to come up with some different images and still demonstrte the pac man type gameplay. I think a sample like yours is a great benefit to the community, I just would prefer you not to do any ripping or stealing of images and sounds in providing this great resource.

Ok thanks for your time, I'll see what I can do. I'm very annoyed and I probably sound like it, but that's not your fault per say.

DrAsik100:

Ok thanks for your time, I'll see what I can do. I'm very annoyed and I probably sound like it, but that's not your fault per say.

Not a problem, I'm happy to help out. I haven't seen too many (actually can't remember any) XNA Pac Man clones yet, so I'd love to see this one get posted somewhere. This is one of the baby step games of game development I encourage everyone to make. So having a reference people can look at is great. So just to make it 100% useful (so we can actually get a link up here) just make your own art and create your own sounds and you're good to go.

Look on the flip side of this. If you were to make a game, an all original game, how would you feel when someone stole all your art and sounds for their clone? Once it starts becoming you it's happening too (and since you're in game development, there's definitely that possibility) and it's your own hard work, sweat and tears you're seeing appearing on someone else's site saying, hey check out my cool clone! It just stops being as fun and then you're annoyed for a different reason.

Man, this is crap. He can't even give a link to this free download because it looks like Pac-Man? If that's the case, you might want to remove that Pong clone that someone just put up to SELL on Community Games!

segarr:

Man, this is crap. He can't even give a link to this free download because it looks like Pac-Man? If that's the case, you might want to remove that Pong clone that someone just put up to SELL on Community Games!

Might want to read the thread before jumping to conclusions. He can't link to it because he admitted to ripping the art and sound assets he used in creating his Pac Man clone. That's the only reason. I haven't heard the guy who made the Pong clone claim the same and I do believe he was warned about his name, but we don't know enough about the law to know if that should justify it being taken down.

We *DO* know that using ripped graphics and sounds is illegal. So we can't allow that. Just wanted to make that clear since you were obviously confused about what was going on.

Whatever. I guess the lesson is you can use ripped assets, just don't admit to it and you're fine!

DrAsik, just put it on www.gameprojects.com so people can check it out there.

segarr:

Whatever. I guess the lesson is you can use ripped assets, just don't admit to it and you're fine!

Or we could learn the better lesson of not using ripped graphics and sounds. I think it's a great project and I'm really hoping he takes the time to create his own content. I want to encourage all game developers to create their own assets instead of stealing them. That's actually why I have assets for developers to use on my site just to encourage people to go about game development the right way.

segarr - please stop trying to make the mods look like bad cops. Microsoft set the rules for the forums and we have to enforce them. If you don't like it there are plenty of other places for you to hang out.

The rules are that IP violations are not allowed. Unless a lawyer knocks on the door we are quite happy with clones, however ripped art and sound whether you admit it or if we recognize it are not allowed. Not in the forums and not in the Community Games. If the pong game you mention violates IP rules then it will be removed. Its that simple.

If he wants to put it up on his own web page or elsewhere then that is fine with us - he will have to deal with any issues no matter how unlikely you find them. But this is Microsoft sovereign territory and while a lawyer may not go after some guy with a 3 page blog they just love going after big corporations with lots of money.

I think the original questions have been answered as much as we can without breaking the other Microsoft rules of legal advice so http://forums.xna.com/forums/t/17830.aspx and locked