(I know there a similar forum about xfart, but that thread was getting really long.)

Hey, what are your guys thoughts on the non games such as Calculator, Rumble Massage, Fireplace etc being released on Community Games.

I thought most people were okay with it, and I saw it as a natural evolution of the service, but my latest app "Time and Tune" just got failed for Inappropriate content.

From the Game Failed Email-
"Not a game, Xbox live community games, not software. Please stop putting trash in the community games section."
"NOT A GAME THIS IS GAME STUDIO XNA COMMUNITY GAMES!!! not xna community random crap that no one needs or wants with terrible graphics that hurt eyes"

I think the other game of mine that they are referring to is "Rumble Massage" which has had over a hundred thousand demo copies downloaded and thousands of full versions purchased so far.

I know plenty of musicians that don't want to drop $40 on a real metronome and feel that a Metronome app is something that they would use.

What do you guys think about the whole game/app debate.  Should I release it again or will I just keep getting failed?

Thanks,
     Justin

I think the positive consumer response to Rumble Massage has already answered this question has it not?

Plus people should not be failing entries just because in their subjective opinion it is not a game.

You should totally resubmit... in fact you should send your email fail to creators@xna.com as whoever failed you for that needs a slap upside the head. I will also notify them but you need to complain. These reviewers (who of course did it anonymously...) are breaking the rules and should get a warning/ban see http://forums.xna.com/forums/t/23510.aspx

I'm no fan of the non games myself, but comsumer response disagrees with me and right now you cannot fail for that.


To be clear here - if the people who failed your game are reading this then they should stop failing for this reason right now otherwise they are likley to lose memberships that they paid for! They might also want to apologise so that Microsoft don't come down too hard on them!

Sorry to hear someone did that to you Justin.

You keep making what you want to make.
Like Zman said, what that reviewer did was against the rules and you should forward that to the xna team.

Um yeah, you should report that. That is not a valid reason to fail a game.

@Justin

Imho, both apps and games could co-exist on XBLCG, I know some developer might get grumpy that their hard work effort aren't recognized like they wanted, but in the end its the consumer who decide where he went to spend his MS points.  It seems you put out an apps that had an audience for, unless you had some kind of ponzi scheme to get people buy into your product ;-).

Even myself I had some ideas for some apps that I would find cool to have, just dunno the feasability of them and now me and my friends already have a game project under development for XNA.

And like Greg, ZMan mentionned people shouldnt failed you because they dont like your apps.  This is not part of the rules of peer reviews.  If indeed your apps had a real defect, crashing bug then they should fail it so you can then go and correct the problems.

We won't tolerate people failing content just because they don't agree with it's purpose. Mail us

Justin Le Clair:

From the Game Failed Email-
"Not a game, Xbox live community games, not software. Please stop putting trash in the community games section."
"NOT A GAME THIS IS GAME STUDIO XNA COMMUNITY GAMES!!! not xna community random crap that no one needs or wants with terrible graphics that hurt eyes"

Oh, pathetic...
A kind of behind-the-scenes politics going on there...

I havent bought one of these apps, I did let my cat watch Aquarium HD until the timer ran out, but thats about it. I do however think we could use an apps category on the NXE.  Do you think we will get people to release episodic video content when we have the ability to stream video on XNA? might want to create a video section too just to be safe.

That is totally bogus, if you didn't have Rickroll in there you would have passed last time. There were no glitches in that game.

I think we went through the inappropriate content rule before in another thread.

Big Daddio:

I think we went through the inappropriate content rule before in another thread.

Yep, but this time the non-games are taking our jerbs!

Justin Le Clair:

Hey, what are your guys thoughts on the non games such as Calculator, Rumble Massage, Fireplace etc being released on Community Games.

As far as I'm concerned Justin, I have absolutely no problem with non games.  If that's what the customer wants, then give it to them and from what I've seen, it's clear that it's what they want.

I'll apologise in advance in case anyone is offended by this, but I think that there's a lot of envy going around at the moment due to the success of the non games.

Justin Le Clair:

I thought most people were okay with it, and I saw it as a natural evolution of the service, but my latest app "Time and Tune" just got failed for Inappropriate content.

From the Game Failed Email-
"Not a game, Xbox live community games, not software. Please stop putting trash in the community games section."
"NOT A GAME THIS IS GAME STUDIO XNA COMMUNITY GAMES!!! not xna community random crap that no one needs or wants with terrible graphics that hurt eyes"

In my opinion, this is an example of the envy I mentioned above and is unacceptable, not to mention badly worded.

Mark

I sent an email to xnacf@microsoft.com when I got the email that it had failed.  Should I send another one to creators@xna.com?   I'm just bummed I have to wait 7 more days.

The email address is creators@microsoft.com, not xna.com.

Justin Le Clair:

I sent an email to xnacf@microsoft.com when I got the email that it had failed.  Should I send another one to creators@xna.com?   I'm just bummed I have to wait 7 more days.

I think that creators@xna.com creators@microsoft.com (thanks for the correction Nick) is the correct one to use, so I would say yes.  It must be really frustrating to have to wait seven days when nothing was wrong.

Mark

Sorry to hear that. I don't see what the big deal is with having apps on XBLCG, if people want them then they should be up there.

Justin Le Clair:

What do you guys think about the whole game/app debate.  Should I release it again or will I just keep getting failed?

Thanks,
     Justin

@Justin, this is just unbelievable, I for one will happily review your game (fairly) when it returns. Don't let this put you off man.

@Pheel, dude if you decide to ban these idiots (which I personally would for serious system gaming) then you have my vote of support !


If these guys spent more time on their own titles and looking into what's actually selling and why, then maybe they wouldn't feel the need to try and derail someone elses efforts. Sour grapes can be a terrible thing.

-Will

I just wanted to add my voice of support too. The fail was totally unfounded and against the rules. And regarding your question about the whole game/app debate: I have no problem with apps on the service.

Doc

This is review system abuse, plain and simple. Please report it to Microsoft via email address in the above posts, so that Microsoft will take care of these "reviewer(s)".

Lately I found several such reviews: here and here.
And here is some reviewer's quote: "i believe i gave your game ample time, 5 minutes i think. most games i try can be deleted within about ten seconds if they are unplayable for me."

Wow, just wow. He give a game a WHOLE 5 minutes....
Well, what can I say? Did not understand review process? Check. Did not read review guidelines? Check. Thinks that XBLCG belongs to him? Check. Having too much power and abusing it? Check.

Well, I hope some of these reviewer(s) read "Lazy reviewer's" thread here and will start doing proper reviews. Also while not directly related, I would recommend reading Tic Tac Toad review thread http://forums.xna.com/forums/p/22635/122456.aspx

P.S. I know I sound harsh and brutal, but I can understand what Justin feels after his app was failed for no reason. I would feel same way if my app (calculator) was failed for this.

Spyn Doctor:

And regarding your question about the whole game/app debate: I have no problem with apps on the service.

I can see a lot of people being annoyed because it says Community GAMES and not Community Games and Apps or Community Software. If you go to a service called Community Games and see a bunch of screensavers and apps you might be disgusted and leave right away. Apps do apparently sell well. The big question is: Do the games suffer from being in the same spot as the apps? I think they do. I think apps and games don't have the same target audience and the apps make those that are interested in games walk away for good.

Actually I don't believe that Microsoft is very amused by the apps as well. They've always stressed the fact that Xbox is all about gaming and they don't want it to become similar to a PC. And naming the service Community Games sort of reflects that. I don't thin apps should be banned from being released but I strongly recommend that they get their own tab and are no longer found under Community Games. Then the top 10 Community Games would actually be games. And people would be interested in visiting the service. What do you think any random Xbox Live user thinks about Community Games if he sees the top 10 and reads something like

1. Fireplace
2. Ocean Scenes
3. Remote Masseuse
4. Calculator
5. Clock 24-7
6. In the Pit
7. EZ Muse
8. TV Calibration
9. Rumble Massage
10. DrumKit

If this is the first thing you read about Community Games and you're interested in games at all - would you bother going there to find games? Or would you think that there don't seem to be any (good) games at all, if the charts are dominated by this stuff?

In the Pit is awesome!

Hi Justine,

I'm with you.

I'm not a fan of your app but there's no reason you should stop going into the peer process.
Guys that failed your game abused the system, there's no rule saying you should not make apps.

And the final thought: if people buys vibration or screensaver things is because they like them. They're not the actual problem, the problem is that too few gamers knows CG (or are able to find them on NXE)

Pandapadawan:

Spyn Doctor:

And regarding your question about the whole game/app debate: I have no problem with apps on the service.

I can see a lot of people being annoyed because it says Community GAMES and not Community Games and Apps or Community Software. If you go to a service called Community Games and see a bunch of screensavers and apps you might be disgusted and leave right away. Apps do apparently sell well. The big question is: Do the games suffer from being in the same spot as the apps? I think they do. I think apps and games don't have the same target audience and the apps make those that are interested in games walk away for good.

Actually I don't believe that Microsoft is very amused by the apps as well. They've always stressed the fact that Xbox is all about gaming and they don't want it to become similar to a PC. And naming the service Community Games sort of reflects that. I don't thin apps should be banned from being released but I strongly recommend that they get their own tab and are no longer found under Community Games. Then the top 10 Community Games would actually be games. And people would be interested in visiting the service. What do you think any random Xbox Live user thinks about Community Games if he sees the top 10 and reads something like

1. Fireplace
2. Ocean Scenes
3. Remote Masseuse
4. Calculator
5. Clock 24-7
6. In the Pit
7. EZ Muse
8. TV Calibration
9. Rumble Massage
10. DrumKit

If this is the first thing you read about Community Games and you're interested in games at all - would you bother going there to find games? Or would you think that there don't seem to be any (good) games at all, if the charts are dominated by this stuff?

There wasn't ever a top ten like that. In the Pit is probably considered by the reviewing community in the real world as quite innovative. Major Nelson the official Microsoft face of Xbox Live recommended you check out Fireplace, so apparently Microsoft is more than amused, but actually supportive of things like this. For you to say Xbox is a game machine and MS doesn't want that sullied you need look no further than the downloadable movies and the Netfix connection. Lets not forget the Avatars with the dress up mode, connection to your home network to play music and video, oh yea and the ability to show grandma pictures on the TV... It's not just a game machine, its an entertainment center. The only part you hear or care about is game machine.

Guessing how Microsoft may or may not feel  is a waste of time. It doesn't really matter how anyone feels about applications vs. games, unless there are explicit review guidelines provided by Microsoft that say "no apps" then using that as a reason for failure is bogus and an abuse of the system.

Pandapadawan:

Or would you think that there don't seem to be any (good) games at all, if the charts are dominated by this stuff?

Hence the need for a rating system, which has been brought up in a thousand other threads. That's not to say that people still won't rate Calculator the highest using that system, which they very well may.

Harald Maassen:

In the Pit is awesome!

I just put it in there to have at least one game. I know it's awesome.