I've been enjoying all of the community games on xbox live recently and had a list of a bunch that I wanted to purchase.  Then I tried to play one of the demos while not connected to xbox live.  I learned that Microsoft doesn't allow users to play community games offline.  This is a horrible design flaw.  I understand their reasoning, to allow unrated content they want people to verify who they are so that little kids don't see something a parent might find objectionable, but it's nothing more than a frustration to everyone who's downloaded demos and even more so to those who've purchased games.  Besides, each game is reviewed and rated by the community, which makes requiring users to connect completely pointless.

Initially, this service seemed like a great way to support user created content and I was even excited about making my own game.  However, with this problem I can't see paying money to play a game that requires I connect to the internet every time.  That's the reason I left PC gaming with the hassles of Steam, Half-Life 2, and making me connect to their server every time I wanted to play.

I ask those in power to put pressure on Microsoft to change this design flaw and allow our customers to play the games that they purchase.  If we do that, we can encourage more people to make games and more users to buy them.

Thanks

I agree this is hurting XBLCG sales, but I wouldn't expect them to change it anytime soon...  that said, can't hurt to file with Connect about it if you really care!

Its not a design flaw. As you discovered its 100% by design and part of the security of ensuring that people can't see what is in effect unrated content. The original discussion was long, painful and not 100% satisfying to many. Microsoft know people dislike it but for now there's no plan to make any changes... nor are we going to have a rerun of the discussion.

See http://forums.xbox.com/24236292/ShowPost.aspx, http://forums.xna.com/forums/p/19178/101196.aspx#101196, http://forums.xbox.com/24236292/ShowPost.aspx for all the previous discussion.

Technically you only have to be online to start the game, you can disconnect once the game is running.

did anyone ever mention anything about MS implementing its own ratings board to solve this issue? then CG members could easily follow the ratings I think.  ill go read through those now.

I've read through the thread posted on the Creators Club forum. I think I have a possible solution.

Basically, I am an adult and I own my Xbox 360. Why can't I decide to 'authorize' my entire system to play unrated content and disable all parental controls? As the owner of the system why can't I agree to some disclaimer stating Microsoft is not responsible, etc, etc? I realize their intentions are good but ultimately it is really up to parents to decide what is unacceptable for their children. If a parent or an adult whats to opt out of these restrictions I believe we should at least be given the option.

That's just my opinion on it.

That certainly sounds reasonable but that would be something that seems, to me, like it would need to be implemented at the xbox level of things. Though closely related the XNA Game Studio team can't just make changes to the Xbox and dashboard to make their games work. Involving a 2nd team means prioritising within their features and working to their schedule. Is this something that the xbox team would decide to implement? Who knows outside of community games it seems to have little value to them but its worth making the feature request.

So http://connect.microsoft.com/ is the place to go and make that suggestion. Though you log a request against the XNA team it can and will make it to the relevant team if its outside of their immediate power.

darthuvuis:

did anyone ever mention anything about MS implementing its own ratings board to solve this issue? then CG members could easily follow the ratings I think.  ill go read through those now.

Yes its been suggested for this and several other issues... however if you have ever been through a formal ratings review you would know that this is totally impractical for community games. Would you pay the thousands it would cost for your game? In addition the ratings work becuase publishers can be fined after the fact - most CG developers have no assets worth fining over anyway.

The ZMan:

So http://connect.microsoft.com/ is the place to go and make that suggestion. Though you log a request against the XNA team it can and will make it to the relevant team if its outside of their immediate power.

Done. Connect Suggestion for those who are interested.

I agree with you guys. Being unrated status makes Community Games unplayable without LIVE connection.
If Microsoft finds no-no contents hidden in approved games, they can immediately make those games unplayable
and refund to consumers.

But also I'd like to point out the fact that Community Games doesn't go a step out of member-created contents on
Xbox Live.

Without signing in to LIVE, you can't see even your LIVE friend's member-created contents such as mottos and bios.
Xbox Live strictly governs what member-created contents you can see "at this moment."
You can control a part of them by yourself through Xbox Live's privacy settings.

I think this (being a member-created content) is a part of the reason of why community games cannot be activated
on the Xbox level.

I recently moved, and my 360 is now on the other side of the house from my router.  When I downloaded Kodu (as well as Magic: Duels) I had to unhook my 360 from its TV, move it across the house to a smaller TV near the router, download the game(s) and move it back.

However, when trying to start up Kodu I come to find that I must be connected to Live to play it!  This is terrible!  I may not permanently have my 360 in an internet-accessible location for quite some time, and if I knew about this "feature" I would not have spent my money on this game I now cannot play.

In a more general sense, if one pays for the game, one should be able to continue to play it on their Xbox in the future, regardless of their desire or ability to connect their Xbox to the internet.

Hopefully MS reconsiders this short-sighted policy, and soon.

And, no,  I am not going to buy a $100 wireless card for the Xbox so I can play a $5 community game.

You could also buy some networking cable.

But yeah, it sucks, we know, and there's nothing we can do about it.

JeBuS:

You could also buy some networking cable.

But yeah, it sucks, we know, and there's nothing we can do about it.

I don't want to buy 40 feet of network cable to play a $5 game I already paid for.

Thanks for the positive attitude, though.

It's OK.   I'm just glad I know now, before I spend any more money on Community Games.   As the consumer, I have power in the decision to purchase and not purchase as I choose.  The ability to play these games while not connected to Live is a deal-breaker to me.  What a shame.

The Microsoft team don't read all the feedback in these forums. The more they hear about this being an issue the better. So add an item to http://connect.microsoft.com/ or drop a polite email to creators@microsoft.com. I can't say if this will ever change as there appears to be some legal issues behind it that most of us can't understand but its worth giving the feedback.

I can seeing having to be connect at the time of purchase and perhaps first play, but after that...

Zenfar is connect, technically you only need to be online to buy and start the game (though its every time you start not the 1st time) as the check i done up front. You don't HAVE to stay online while you are playing. That helps in a few scenarios where people have metered internet access and don't want to stay connected but it does help in the above (xbox in a room without Internet) or the visiting friends without internet scenarios which is where we have seen the majority of complaints in the xbox.com forums.

But there's been lots of speculative threads on what should happen, why it should be changed and why its not likley to change so lets not turn this thread into another debate becuase its not going to change anything... if you have time to spare then go playtest a few games or answer some technical questions.

The other day I couldn't play the full version of castle crashers because I wasn't connected to xbox live. I was signed into my profile, though. Seems sorta over the top to me.

Although this is off topic, but maybe this helps: If you couldn't play castle crashers while you were offline, then this means that you were playing it on a different console than the one were you originally bought it. If you had tried to play it on the original console, it should have worked offline too. So either you have two consoles, or your original one broke, and you got a new one. In the latter case, you can transfer the licenses for all downloaded content to the new console, so that you can then play your stuff offline again (a description of how to do this can be found on xbox.com, in the support section).

Doc

Thanks a bunch!

I'll admit that a couple things about this bother me as well.

First, that I could spend six months working on a game and that Microsoft could then prevent me from running. I don't like the fact that I don't have full control of what I create - even for personal use.

Second, that Microsoft will eventually choose to discontinue the service and prevent anyone from running any of these games again. I still fire up my 10 year old Sega Genesis every now and then. If Sega had used the "phone home" option that XBLCG uses, then none of my old Sega games would work today.

Ten years from now when I take my Xbox360 out of the closet, the DVD games and XBLA games will work, but its almost certain that the XBLCG games will not work. That bothers me on some level. The "Buy" option on the Xbox menu for XBLCG should really read "Rent", because your "ownership" and ability to execute them is temporary and conditional.

Captain Comic:

First, that I could spend six months working on a game and that Microsoft could then prevent me from running. I don't like the fact that I don't have full control of what I create - even for personal use.

Well then you are lucky that you found this out before you released such a game. Thankfully now you can write a game for a different platform.

Captain Comic:

Ten years from now when I take my Xbox360 out of the closet, the DVD games and XBLA games will work, but its almost certain that the XBLCG games will not work. That bothers me on some level. The "Buy" option on the Xbox menu for XBLCG should really read "Rent", because your "ownership" and ability to execute them is temporary and conditional.

You are probably right.... that $2.50 you spent on that massage game may not give you 10 years worth of enjoyment. The $10 I spent on pizza yesterday didn't give me 10 years of enjoyment either, nor did anyone spend 6 months creating it... I guess that should have said 'rent' too ;-)

Bottom line if you don't think you are getting value for your 200/400/800 MSP then spend them on something else. Free market economy is a great thing. For example I got burned with DRM on MSN Music and whatever the stupid MTV service was that came after it. Now I buy all my tunes DRM free on Amazon.

Captain Comic:

Ten years from now when I take my Xbox360 out of the closet, the DVD games and XBLA games will work, but its almost certain that the XBLCG games will not work.

How is it almost certain that they won't work? A lot can happen in 10 years. You're making the assumption that they won't change anything over the course of a decade and that's, frankly, a foolish assumption.

The ZMan:

Captain Comic:

First, that I could spend six months working on a game and that Microsoft could then prevent me from running. I don't like the fact that I don't have full control of what I create - even for personal use.

Well then you are lucky that you found this out before you released such a game. Thankfully now you can write a game for a different platform.

I just said it bothered me. I don't think that's any call to be snotty. And I don't have to release something to have put some work into it.

I've pulled out games and applications that I've written 20 years ago on occasion to show people or (in the case of PC titles) to see if they still run on today's machines. People still play them today on emulators (and love to mock them on youtube).

I think you have to be pretty callous to be able to put six months of yourself into a project and then be so flippant about it (assuming you've put six months into a XBLCG project).

Nick Gravelyn:

Captain Comic:

Ten years from now when I take my Xbox360 out of the closet, the DVD games and XBLA games will work, but its almost certain that the XBLCG games will not work.

How is it almost certain that they won't work? A lot can happen in 10 years. You're making the assumption that they won't change anything over the course of a decade and that's, frankly, a foolish assumption.

Actually, I messed up, the Genesis is 20 years old, not 10. As you get older, its easier to drop a decade here and there. And yes, I am assuming a paricular outcome, but given the fact that the current system is probably derived out of legal or control concerns, I think its more likely that they'll just turn it off one day rather than unlock everything. But you're right, its just a guess.

Captain Comic:

The ZMan:

Captain Comic:

First, that I could spend six months working on a game and that Microsoft could then prevent me from running. I don't like the fact that I don't have full control of what I create - even for personal use.

Well then you are lucky that you found this out before you released such a game. Thankfully now you can write a game for a different platform.

I just said it bother me. I don't think that's any call to be snotty. And I don't have to release something to have put some work into it.

I really should include my sarcasm tags... all I meant was that if you know the limitations of a platform before you start then you can choose not to even start. Yes its a design that doesn't make anyone happy but at least you didn't dscover the design issue in 10 years time.

However, other than avatars and live everything on XNA runs on windows too. One option would be to keep a windows build alongside which should run much longer.