hi altogether,

actually i'm developing a new game using XNA GameStudio 3.0.
Plan was to sell it via XBOX Live but now I read there are only a few countries supported - excluding Germany. So my question is if anybody knows if there's a chance Germany is added to supported countries or where the problem is that it's not.

Kind regards

Marcus

There have been no announced plans to add Germany to the list of supported countries. I don't know personally, but I would be willing to bet that there are some laws in Germany that restrict the sale of unrated content. Since all Community Games are necessarily unrated by any recognized organization, this makes it very prohibitive to get XBLCG available in Germany.

Hmm...sure - USK is quite strict. But I just want to upload from Germany - not to download. So I don't get it why this should be a problem. Gna - hope Microsoft will solve this problem - otherwise I think I'll have a look for some other Publishing-Platform. (btw: There's not this kind of problem for apple' ITunesStore, isn't there?)
Best thanks for fast answering anyway :)

Greetings from goold old Germany

Marcus

marcus pflanz:

So I don't get it why this should be a problem.

Probably because you're not specialized in international business, law, or trade. I'm sure if there were no issues they would have already opened it up for you to upload your game. 

marcus pflanz:

Gna - hope Microsoft will solve this problem - otherwise I think I'll have a look for some other Publishing-Platform.

Hopefully someday but there have been no announcements (and no, asking won't get you one). So feel free to find another platform that can help you get your game out to the world and keep an eye on blogs.msdn.com/xna for any announcements around adding more countries to the supported list of developer regions.

Hi,

I also have developed one game using XNA for the Dream Build Play'08! But Austria is not supported too...
First I wanted to participate to this years dream build contest. But I am not motivated anymore if I maybe never can sell my games!! Hope MS will find a way to get GC to our countries..

-Stefan

Hi again,

It's not a month until Dream Build Play 09 but there is still no sign that support for Germany is planned. I'll participate in DBP09 and hope that afterwards support for Germany may be added. If not I'll try to find a contact at MS and ask where the problem is. USK (German youth protection) is definetely not the problem beacause online-only-downloadable games are not rated and cannot be prohibited. In FAQ you can read '[...] but these are the only countries where XNA is enabled to pay their residents [...]'. Sorry but I'm not wondering why Richard Teversham left MS and went to apple. Phew ... sorry again if i offended anybody but I'm really annoyed.

Kind regards to all developers and MS-team (for nearly all of them just do their job and are not responsible for this dilemma)

Marcus

As we've always told people there are many reasons why countries are not supported, ratings, money transfer, tax laws and finally time. Every country rolled out has to have a team of people ensuring all the laws are kept. The XNA team is still a relatively small team within Microsoft and they simply don't have time to create every feature everyone wants and support every country on XBL.

There are 26 supported live countries http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/countries.htm only 6 are supported for XBLIG consumers and 14 for developers with Japan being added soon. I'm sure they are working on the rest but it takes time. For YOU Germany is more important but is it a strategic move for Microsoft? Does Germany have a high XBLA sales market or would they be better off supporting India?

I can't claim expert knowledge of the ratings laws in Germany but its well known that they are tougher than the US which is why people point a finger there. I also suspect that the team of lawyers that Microsoft has are very expert on the subject.

There's far more to this than any of us know and your overreaction is just a typical internet 'its all about me' argument. Do you think Germany deserves it more than the other 12 missing countries?  Heck You could claim that its the consumers fault - if they bought more XBLIG titles then the team would be able to expand and have more time. I suspect Richard left for Apple for unrelated reasons than not having Germany on XBLIG - but don't let the facts get in the way of your dramatic argument eh?

First of all thanks for the reasons you've posted - I didn't know XNA-team is quite small as I thought MS tried to make an app-store-like rival. And no, I don't think Germany is center of the world but especially the fact that even Japan is not added yet shows that MS-policy is not based on biggest sales-markets but perhaps on easiest publishing-laws. As I posted previously I don't want to affend anyone but try to call attention to a country, which is currently getting very game-developer-friendly and has a lot of unused potencial. While a lot of game-developer-studios in other countries have to face the effects of worldwide economic crisis German game-studios are pretty well situated. Also I've not found a source of information for plans of what countries are maybe added soon. Even trying to find any announcements for adding Japan, as you've posted above, only returned another post of you ZMan. So I'd be very thankful if you would tell me where you've got your information from.
At least I know my posts maybe weren't that objectively but it's simply annoying seeing others publishing their games while I can't just because of some stupid laws or whatever - simply no specific issue to solve and so I'm feeling a bit helpless.
As I don't want to stress anybody any longer I'll keep on improving my game and will wait for further announcements.
Thanks again to anyone who spent some of his valuable time for my worries.

Greetings from good old Germany,

Marcus

The announcement was made on a Japanese only MS site - see here http://forums.xbox.com/26870105/ShowPost.aspx but the XNA team confirmed to the MVPs that it was correct.

I can assure you that EVERY  country that isn't on the service justifies itself with much the same reasons.... many game developers, large market of game consumers...  and yes its annoying for them too. I'm sure Germany is up there in the top 10 but you are right, anything that slows the process down legally or financially is going to put that country futher down the priority list. I'm sure the countries currently included are also in the top 10 sales wise. Do you know for sure that Japan sells more or less XBLA games than Germany (I choose XBLA becuase its the closest model)? I certainly don't. Maybe Microsoft Japan offered to pay the $$$ it took to add that country and do all the required translation. There's always more reasons than most folk can guess at.

Being also a programmer from Germany, I would like to contribute to this discussion.

ZMan, I agree with everything you say. There can be so many reasons that we don't understand/imagine.

But I find it very unsatisfying and not really understandable why we are kept with such little information about the current status of expanding the XBLCG programme.

I mean, where is the problem to publish an official list of the countries that are currently being "worked on" with some status like "will be added soon", "negotiations begun", "nogotiations almost finished", "currently not planned" or something like that, so that peple can get an idea.
If we cannot influence the process, at least TELL US about the progress.

At the moment, we have NO CLUE about what's going on, and many programmers from all around the world are asking themselves: "Is it worth to start considering XNA Game Studio as a platform for my next game project? Will I be able to sell/publish my games anytime soon? Or do I happen to live in country that unfortunately won't make it into the list anytime soon for whatever reason?"

So Microsoft, if you are reading this, is there any possibility to shed some light on the current development/status of integrating more countries to XBLCG? Maybe set up an official "List" that can be followed by everyone with some information/comments about whatever is currently happening for each country? You can keep it as detailed/superficial as you like.

I understand that not every piece of information can/should be published, but I believe publishing at least a little bit more information than now (which is: nothing!) should be possible.

Hi,
I'm also a german developer waiting for Germany to be added.
But I have no idea what is getting on there.

For the meanwhile I switched to make Apps for the App Store.
It seems there is no list of supported or unsupported countries.
It is the same procedure for every developer.

I think all XBox Developers would be happy to publish their games even
if the games can't be bought in their own country.
Even if there are legal issues to open XBLCG for german customers it should be possible for german developers
to publish games for the countries which are already supported.

Lawi

zissakos:

But I find it very unsatisfying and not really understandable why we are kept with such little information about the current status of expanding the XBLCG programme.

I mean, where is the problem to publish an official list of the countries that are currently being "worked on" with some status like "will be added soon", "negotiations begun", "nogotiations almost finished", "currently not planned" or something like that, so that peple can get an idea.
If we cannot influence the process, at least TELL US about the progress.

Lets say they say they are working on Germany but they don't know how long. If they say they are working on it and Germany starts writing games and 6 months later they hit a roadblock then those developers are annoyed. All public annoncements from Microsoft have to be press checked, legal checked and probably 5 other checks to make sure they are not messing with other groups or corporate marketing. Its not as simple as some manager blogging status whnever they feel like it.

Heck when MS miss a deadline for Dream Build Play by a week these forums erupt as is Microsoft murdered a family member. I'm surprised they tell us anything given how most developers react.

Your request has been raised before and there's been no change to the statement 'we will tell you when we have news' for a year now. Best suggestion is to add your request to http://connect.microsoft.com/

YESS!!!

Finally Germany is in now!! Thank you so much Microsoft!!!

I just wanted to say thanks to XNA-team for adding support for Germany and again I want to apologize for my previous impatience - Sorry guys >.<

That's great Germany was added to supported countries. Unfortunately, I live in Poland, and my question is... no, it's not about how long will it take to support Poland. Especially that we don't even have XBox Live support yet. The question is whether I need to be a resident of a supported country at the moment the game is being published or at the moment I should fill Personally Identifying Information? It's not a big problem for me to get a bank account and taxation number in one of supported countries, but it would be good if I knew whether it's worth the effort and that I already passed the payout limit.
I've also got some family members in the supported countries, but still, I'd like to know if it's worth to hassle them.

Madras:

That's great Germany was added to supported countries. Unfortunately, I live in Poland, and my question is... no, it's not about how long will it take to support Poland. Especially that we don't even have XBox Live support yet. The question is whether I need to be a resident of a supported country at the moment the game is being published or at the moment I should fill Personally Identifying Information? It's not a big problem for me to get a bank account and taxation number in one of supported countries, but it would be good if I knew whether it's worth the effort and that I already passed the payout limit.
I've also got some family members in the supported countries, but still, I'd like to know if it's worth to hassle them.

Poland isn't an official Xbox LIVE supported country so the chance of supporting Poland anytime soon for submissions is unlikely

Unfortunately you need to live in one of the supported countries to submit games

Poland isn't an official Xbox LIVE supported country so the chance of supporting Poland anytime soon for submissions is unlikely

Yes, I know that.

Unfortunately you need to live in one of the supported countries to submit games

Thanks for this information. But what do you mean by living in one of the supported countries? Is just having a valid home address enough? If I just go for a week to a supported country will I be allowed to publish my game?

Well you've already admitted you 'live' in poland... So the official positon is that you cannot submit.

While there are ways to 'work around' the system its something you need to do at your own risk. If you get caught then you risk a ban and your game being pulled down. Asking for clarification in here is really jsut drawing attention to you.

I'm asking for clarification because I don't want to take any risks. There are reasons that publishing is allowed from Germany and is not allowed from Poland. If I knew what are exact requirements I could adjust to them so that both sides were satisfied. Remember, that it's not only me who would earn money on my game and Microsoft could also be interested in answering my question. I suppose it's all about taxation and legal issues, but there's nothing that prevents Polish people from working in other EU countries under their law - so why wouldn't I be able to move to Germany (it's just about 200 kilometers away from my home) and submit my game from there under German law? Maybe there's a reason I don't understand, but that's why I'm asking my question.

If you actually move to Germany (or any other valid country) and fulfill the requirements for address, bank and tax information then that would be ok. If you are on a team with somebody who live in a valid country then they can submit (though they get paid and taxed and are responsible for paying you).

Anything else would be a risk... and Microsoft are not going to tell you how to work around the system and if they find out you did then there could be repercussions.

If you actually move to Germany (or any other valid country) and fulfill the requirements for address, bank and tax information then that would be ok. If you are on a team with somebody who live in a valid country then they can submit (though they get paid and taxed and are responsible for paying you).

Thanks for the response. I'll consider these two options to publish my game.

Hi, I'm from Poland and I'm facing the same problem too. I suppose that one soklution would be to start a company in Germany (or UK) - which is possible since we are EU citizens and then publish the game as the company - based in Germany, but owned by Polish citizen. This should be perfectly legal.

See the all new FAQ http://forums.xna.com/forums/t/36780.aspx

We don't comment on legal questions here... talk to a lawyer.