I just read this in the announcement. I think it's a very welcome change - as was discussed in previous threads, "Community Games" could be construed as having negative connotations. The new name seems much more descriptive and accurate.

So what does everyone think of this? For me, it means redoing my trailers and website to reflect the name change when it happens. :-)

For me it means finding a new domain for xblcg.info. I'm perfectly ok with the new name. I didn't think the old name was bad nor do I think the name change is going to miraculously change the general perception or traffic of XBLC... XBLIG. But I'm always up for something I didn't do getting me more money. Now if only I would finish a second game at some point...

"it's more valuable to focus on things you can change rather than things you cannot"

Looks like the discussion we had previously wasn't all for naught. It did help change things. ;)

I originally agreed that the name did need changing. I wasn't all that enthused about "indie", but I understand why they went that route & it's starting to grow on me.

Thanks go to Microsoft for listening to the community!

Tommy McClain

It still has "Games" in the title... a bit surprizing given how many non-games are on the service, I would have thought Microsoft would address that with a name change.

Not sure if I like it better... I don't like it worse at least.

I like it. It rolls off the tongue easier, and it's more clear. I think people will know what they're getting when they hear "Indie Games" versus "Community Games". What's a "Community Game", after all?

I would of preferred to have seen something like Xbox Live Underground or some of the other names thrown around, but I can understand why Microsoft went this route.

In reading the news on the front page I saw that they say they listened to all of us and have made changes based on that.
My question is, who was asking for the name change from xblcg to xblig?
Personally I don't think this will help with sales and everything that has come out so far using community in the name now either needs changing or will make no sense to new consumers.

What does everyone else think about this name change?

I don't know, it is right that "Indie" sounds good, but I also liked the "Community" one. Maybe "Indie" sounds more professionnal, but the term "Community" express an idea of lots of people helping each other.

Aztec:

In reading the news on the front page I saw that they say they listened to all of us and have made changes based on that.
My question is, who was asking for the name change from xblcg to xblig?
Personally I don't think this will help with sales and everything that has come out so far using community in the name now either needs changing or will make no sense to new consumers.

What does everyone else think about this name change?

JasonD first posted the thread...

http://forums.xna.com/forums/p/29584/166425.aspx

Tommy McClain

Antoine:

I don't know, it is right that "Indie" sounds good, but I also liked the "Community" one. Maybe "Indie" sounds more professionnal, but the term "Community" express an idea of lots of people helping each other.

The people who actually buy the games don't care about the community behind it and how helpful developers are to each other. And the name Community Games is pretty much burnt. So I welcome the change. However if they only change the name and not the rules Indie Games will be burnt just as fast as Community Games. And then what?

AzBat360:

Aztec:

In reading the news on the front page I saw that they say they listened to all of us and have made changes based on that.
My question is, who was asking for the name change from xblcg to xblig?
Personally I don't think this will help with sales and everything that has come out so far using community in the name now either needs changing or will make no sense to new consumers.

What does everyone else think about this name change?

JasonD first posted the thread...

http://forums.xna.com/forums/p/29584/166425.aspx

Tommy McClain

I see, hadn't noticed this post. Interesting reading but I think personally I like community games better than indy games.
Community games has a better right to it for me.
Oh well, in the end I guess the product remains the same and that's all that matters.

Man, now I gotta get a new t-shirt!


So does this mean that AAA studios can't release games on the service now?!? ;) :D

Jim Perry:

Man, now I gotta get a new t-shirt!

They make Community Games t-shirts?? I gotta get me one of those! (I'm glad I waited to get tshirts made to advertise my games)

Jim Perry:

So does this mean that AAA studios can't release games on the service now?!? ;) :D

You're right! I doubt that Kodu, product of Microsoft R&D, qualifies as "Indie". ;-) (not that anyone will complain, except maybe a couple people: "Kodu is stealing my game's sales11!!!11!1")

<serious>
Maybe this is a very, very subtle hint that Microsoft doesn't want AAA companies using this as "XBLA-Lite"?

UberGeekGames:

Maybe this is a very, very subtle hint that Microsoft doesn't want AAA companies using this as "XBLA-Lite"?

I don't think "Community Games" was any more inviting. In fact, "Indie Games" is more so given that "indie" is the hip new buzz word.

"Community Games" sounded more like "any member of the regular community can put something up" to me. "Indie Games" sounds to me more like "These aren't professional studios, shackled by deadlines and mass market appeal - they're small independents, and as Braid etc have shown you, indie can equal awesome!!!". At least I hope that's what is brought to mind when Joe Gamer is browsing the CG - I mean, IG tab (I've got to get used to saying that now).

As people probably could've guessed, it seems that some people (read the comments as well) really don't like the new naming. We're apparently imposing on their exclusive "indie club".

Nick Gravelyn:

As people probably could've guessed, it seems that some people (read the comments as well) really don't like the new naming. We're apparently imposing on their exclusive "indie club".

Check the comments on Kotaku's post...

http://kotaku.com/5287078/xbox-live-community-games-renamed

All kinds of different takes.

Tommy McClain

AzBat360:

Nick Gravelyn:

As people probably could've guessed, it seems that some people (read the comments as well) really don't like the new naming. We're apparently imposing on their exclusive "indie club".

Check the comments on Kotaku's post...

http://kotaku.com/5287078/xbox-live-community-games-renamed

All kinds of different takes.

Tommy McClain

Well some of those are good, some are not so good, and some are really, really stupid ("years" of poorly selling games on a platform that has been running for six months? "XNA uses C"? "All developers use C++"? Wow). :p

Guess we'll just have to see. The important thing is that the media likes it. If they like it, hopefully they cover it more, drive more consumers, and bring more developers. The snobby people whining about Microsoft stealing the term "indie" weren't going to buy the games in the first place, so I don't care too much what they think.

On the plus side for me, I'm rebranding xblcg.info as xboxindies.com and Kotaku has already dropped the phrase Xbox Indies. I love it. :)

This is going to be confusing for consumers that don't pay much attention to the service in the first place. I've told a lot of people my game is coming out for Community Games. This throws them off the scent!

I think Indie Games is a slightly better name, but not so much better that it's worth changing and confusing people.

Ryan Thorlakson:

This is going to be confusing for consumers that don't pay much attention to the service in the first place. I've told a lot of people my game is coming out for Community Games. This throws them off the scent!

Probably one of the reasons they told the developers first... its not going to be indie games on the console for a while... time to change your marketing.

I'm wondering if any casual gamers won't know what "indie" means. The wording of the announcement suggests that user ratings will be implemented around/at the same time as the name change; combined with some additional UI tweaks and it may actually look like a totally different section, meaning Microsoft will promote it quite a bit when it finally goes live. Timing your release to coincide with this "grand reopening" may be a wise marketing move.

I think this is a great change to make, Community Games sounded more like a poor mans game.
Indie Games sound a lot more profesional and should raise expectations of consumers. With the new user rating in
where good games being easier to find i think this can work out a lot better now.

Argi Baltzi:

Indie Games sound a lot more profesional and should raise expectations of consumers.

That's actually the problem I see. XBLCGs are (on average) pretty bad. Now gamers might expect higher quality. Yet nothing in changing a name inherently raises game values. So I fear the name change will cause greater disappointment when people expect more but get the same games that, today, they don't think are very good.

I think for any of this name change business to have any effect, everyone needs to work on quality. Developers need to put more time into their games and make them good. This means taking as much feedback from playtesting [which you're using, right?] and implementing it. It also means to give up some stupid notion of a deadline and sucking it up to make a better game.

Peer reviewers need to stop fishing for kick back reviews and start testing for all the crash points. Open the guide at start up and during load screens, cancel storage prompts, test with controllers 2-4, try buying the game with a controller that isn't signed in. Really put the game through the paces.

And everyone needs to be using playtesting to get developers feedback before they release their game. If developers find out early that something isn't working, they'll be less likely to get so attached to it and thus more willing to change and fix the problems in their game.

If the quality of the games doesn't increase, the name change is not going to help in any substantial fashion. We need to show those TIGSource and Kotaku naysayers that we can produce quality games worthy of their "indie" title.

Nick Gravelyn:

Argi Baltzi:

Indie Games sound a lot more profesional and should raise expectations of consumers.

That's actually the problem I see. XBLCGs are (on average) pretty bad. Now gamers might expect higher quality. Yet nothing in changing a name inherently raises game values. So I fear the name change will cause greater disappointment when people expect more but get the same games that, today, they don't think are very good.

I think for any of this name change business to have any effect, everyone needs to work on quality. Developers need to put more time into their games and make them good. This means taking as much feedback from playtesting [which you're using, right?] and implementing it. It also means to give up some stupid notion of a deadline and sucking it up to make a better game.

Peer reviewers need to stop fishing for kick back reviews and start testing for all the crash points. Open the guide at start up and during load screens, cancel storage prompts, test with controllers 2-4, try buying the game with a controller that isn't signed in. Really put the game through the paces.

And everyone needs to be using playtesting to get developers feedback before they release their game. If developers find out early that something isn't working, they'll be less likely to get so attached to it and thus more willing to change and fix the problems in their game.

If the quality of the games doesn't increase, the name change is not going to help in any substantial fashion. We need to show those TIGSource and Kotaku naysayers that we can produce quality games worthy of their "indie" title.

Agreed! Great points all around Nick! Maybe you should sticky that?

Tommy McClain

I'm not sure what impact "Community" had on the public, and who knows if Indie connects any better. Took me a few seconds to make sure what it meant. I fear for what the Xbox players are going to think when they see "Indie games" where the community once was. Attracts the curious, repels anyone else.