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FEEDBACK WANTED: Premise/General Concepts Stage(ORP)

Last post 9/12/2009 6:31 PM by Wipeout Down. 4 replies.
  • 8/24/2009 3:38 PM

    FEEDBACK WANTED: Premise/General Concepts Stage(ORP)

    MY PERSONAL FORMULA*
    For the "Out Rigged Project"(ORP)
    * based on http://forums.xna.com/forums/t/37455.aspx

    Sub-Genres
    Stretching things, I can tag my Tactical Combat Racing concept as touching on 3-5 additional sub-genres.

    Content Rating
    There will be no getting around a "T", "T+" or "M" rating, with gambling, smoking, mild lyrics and deadly violence(though little or no blood), and probably some alchohol, drug and sexual references.

    Premise/Gameplay
    I have devised a variant on anti-gravity, with fairly unique acceleration and steering aspects and an optional, in-depth tactical combat aspect. Roughly half of the game will feature combat, while the first solid quarter of it can be non-combative only, right through to the end of the game if the Player chooses. Not to mention I have cut out the old necessity of having to unlock parts of the "Storyline" Mode as you progress...
      With money earned either from high placement in the competative field, or made from a myriad of possible bets, the main point of the game is to be able to afford to keep your vehicle in competition. And in the higher competative divisions, staying alive...
      Or players who acquire enough funds may be able to retire and sponsor NPC characters in competition, with an eye on becoming designer and/or owner of several tracks.
      Additionally, vids of all or most past events may be available for viewing and/or download, perhaps for a small - 0.05-0.20c(USD) - fee per. Or multiple-event Subscriptions may be offered at a discount.

    Storyline
     I have a complex backdrop which has a lot to do with some of the options players will have, but no storyline, other than a chain of political, and perhaps social and economic, events which may periodically trigger some changes in the "Storyline" Mode.
      I would like to add optional, character or role specific Storyline Missions via the medium of Content Downloads, but such RPG levels will be more of an afterthought, where the original release and its "Storyline" Mode is concerned.

    Characters
    All Anthropomorpic, different ages, sizes, species, social backgrounds, and of both genders; 48 selectable through the "Storyline" Mode.
      All have personal stats and skills which affect how they can or need to interface with their vehicle and determines what services they will have to hire others to provide.

    Vehicles
       Up to thirty feet in length, ten in width(relative), "anti-grav" variant, aerodynamically sound in general. A single basic design with three additional variants geared toward greater player control and less safety, as well as aspects of equipable offensive and defensive options and tactical enhancements.
       Players can own and "hangar" as many vehicles as they can afford and choose to buy, maintain and store.

    Physics/Crash Dynamics
      I won't pretend to know how these are technically referred to, but I expect you may get the ideas...
     Total Mass/Gravity factoring.
      Atmosperic resistances.
       Aero and Drag dymamics.
      Compensative thruster factors.
     Explosive force dynamics.
      Kinetic impact physics.
       Mechanical stressing factors.
      Momentum feed fuel factors.
    Probably more...

    Power-ups/Weapons
      A literal "Power-up" aspect for one purpose, of only one type.
       Mounted guns of up to 2-4 types; ammunition of several varieties.
       Mounted cannons of 1-3 types; ordnance of a few varieties.
       Auto and/or custom programmable mines of up to 3-6 or more types.
       Auto and/or custom programmable rockets of up to 3-4 or more types.
       Auto missles of up to 2-3 types.
     "Handicapped" lacers of 1-3 types.

    Controls
      I have little doubt that each and every inputting factor available on the XBOX controllers will need to be utilized well; control inputting via the keyboard plug-in may even be a necessity or at least desireable.
       Steering and accelerating are a simple matter, if actually exocuted in-game with realistic delays.
      The offensive and defensive factors have extensive pre-race-programmable auto-responses with an indepth, cyclable, select-to-trigger system.
      And various other systems are cyclable to select and exocute.
      On reflection, if possible, an onscreen cursor for highlighting and selecting to exocute, would probably be most ideal, what with all the tactical readouts and control panels that could be cycled through on the playscreen, cockpit-style...

    Tracks/Courses
      Very long and 2-6 vehicles wide, with many different divergences and convergences for significant lengths of their overall layout.
      At least 8 tracks for each division over the first season and as many as 18-24 in some divisions for the last. About 30-40 total, overall.
       Three types/styles of track, one or two perhaps unique to one or more of the specific competative Divisions.
      Some tracks are only available for one or two seasons; some are dropped from, others added to, a division circuit. Most tracks can host events in two or more of the competative divisions, though not all have owners who choose to do so.
      Moving at an average of 750+mph, a single lap on a track with a relative 120mi layout will take under 10min. to complete. Considering real-life NASCAR events comprise hundreds of laps and often take several hours, up to an hour to complete up to 10 laps hardly seems unreasonable.
      Most of the competitions will be a matter of from 3-7 laps.

    Multiplayability
      I'm shooting for at least 20 on console, and as close to 180-220 as possible for any SELMO* development.
      Co-op play for pairs and/or packs of up to 15-20, with considerably larger Alliances forged SELMO.
    (* A variant of MMO I have concepted for the Out Rigged Project.)

    "Storyline" Mode
      This should feature three or four seasons of competition in whichever Divisions the player wishes to run. The role the player chooses to fill can be either wholely Leading or to any degree as Supportive as desired.

    NPC AI
    The point of this game is more about the Online competition, but for an XBOX release of any sort, the ingame "Storyline" Mode is going to need extensive NPC AI, from the route, boosting and stalling of the simplest division of competition, right up to the often signature offensive and defensive tactical patterns of the layered AI NPCs of the most complex division.

    Additional Modes
    I'm not big on extra modes, but I am resigned that some will be necessary to remain on par with other games in this genre. However, I am determined to base them off of the "Storyline" Mode as much as possible.
       "Training Grid" is a Mode wherein players become familiar with all the additional control factors associated with their first vehicle in a new Class, probably on a very simple track.
       "Practise Grid" is a Mode wherein a player becomes familiar with a new track, or refamiliarizes about it. Personal Lap Times are also recorded in this mode.
       "Challenge Grid" is a Mode wherein players try to defeat goal-oriented challenges hosted at each track, from target striking or shooting to fuel conservation over a run. Passing the Challenges risks a fee to try them, but they generally pay several times the fee if you beat them. However, a near miss to defeat a Challenge may remove it from the list, depending on how many times you have tried it.
       "Private Grid" is a Mode wherein a player Hosts a private competition on an available* track of choice, either via Online or Sys. Link, under one of three possible competition styles, Solo, Pack or Allied, in one of the available competative Divisions.
    (*In any season of competition, at various times, certain tracks may be offline for maintenance or expansion, or are destroyed or sabotaged according to the Storyline.)
       "Tournament Grid": a specifically Online Mode wherein players can compete in weekly scheduled events officiated by the games Developer and/or Publisher, in single or multiple Divisions. The featured tracks may be transitioned directly from the "Storyline" Mode, or be unique to the Online competitions, then perhaps offered as Downloadable Content.

    Customizable Features
      I definitely want custom paintjobs, both for the vehicles and to identify larger munitions.
     Tactical/control systems layout.
      And at least a basic, "work from" track editor. [I have doubts that tracks in this game can be "create and compete", at least, not on the full scale of the official tracks.]
      Custom player Avatars are almost a must. I really can't see the game with characters, and making it without the option for inputting new Avatars for players who desire, either intergrated by the Support as a service or uploaded by the players themselves.
      I feel the Custom Soundtracks feature is important too.
      Voice Support select.
       And it would be nice if a small Online team in the Downloadable Content division could work with customer/players to create custom "lift kits" for the vehicles. And possibly custom spec. weapons, small ammo and larger munitions.

    Content Downloads
      Additional tracks, to create new seasons of competition.
      New and improved weapons and ammo.
     New and improved tactical readout systems and control interfaces.
      Additional lyrical tracks.
     New Hosting locations.
      New species and characters.
     Perhaps limited edition "lift kits".

    Soundtrack
      I'm shooting for multiple lyrical tracks, as I find lyrics quite easy to write.

    Graphics
      Decent. I'm not going to hold onto much hope here, not with everything else I am asking...

    Favorite Genre: Racing / Console of Choice: Xbox 360 / Creator-Designer, "ORP" / Current Partners: "Donitz",
  • 8/24/2009 6:57 PM In reply to

    Re: FEEDBACK WANTED: Premise/General Concepts Stage(ORP)

    I've just skimmed this, but one thing I wanted to know as this will affect any more feedback I can give: is this going to be an Indie Game or a full Arcade Game? I ask this because you make references to "Content Downloads" which sound as if they are to be paid for, or at the very least downloaded separately. This is currently impossible in Indie Games.

    Now the following critiques may sound harsh, but they are only my opinion and are designed to help you fill any holes that may have been overlooked in your design. (heck, I love it when someone tears my ideas apart - I've found it greatly helps to keep my ideas grounded in reality and anticipate any potential problems down the road)

    "New and improved tactical readout systems and control interfaces.". Am I to understand I would have to download, and possibly pay for, a better control system? Especially with such a deep game, I would think that this should be perfected before released, and any upgrades to it rolled into a game update.

    Requiring anything more than the default Xbox controller will instantly reduce your game's audience by a huge factor. A very tiny percentage (at least going from my friends and second/third hand stories) of gamers have a keyboard, ChatPad, or anything other than a regular controller (besides guitars and drums of course) hooked up to their console. I think you need to design the game from the ground up to by playable with only the controller - of course you can support the other input devices if you want, but that should only be gravy.

    180-220 players at a time, on the Xbox, would require a special contract with MS for an Arcade game (see the various MMOs out there), and would be impossible on Indie Games since you can only have a maximum of 31 players in the same network session at a time. That said, getting a racing game playable with 20 or so players at a time will be a huge feat in itself. I would shoot for 8-16 players first.

    It sounds like there will be a lot of content in this game. Keep in mind that for Indie Games you have a limit of 150MB, and 50MB if you want to price it at 80 points (which for a game of this scope, I hope it will be worth more than $1, but I thought that second limit should be mentioned).
    "Software is never finished, it is in varying states of 'less broken'" because "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet"

    In Playtest: Avatar Land | The MANLY Game for MANLY Men

    The signature that was too big for the 512 char limit
  • 8/26/2009 11:36 AM In reply to

    Re: FEEDBACK WANTED: Premise/General Concepts Stage(ORP)

    TO: UberGeekGames
       Without having consulted any Programmer on the matter, I plan on a decent proof-of-concepts release Indie, then on to Arcade or Console, or perhaps MMO if I can get a nibble that will satisfy all the work the involved Programmers will have put in up to any point. I expect to only do what we can for Indie, which I am aware has limitations which merit serious consideration.

    Hey. You have technical knowledge and experience... I will take you seriously and without any offense, assuming you don't try to browbeat me for my stupid optimism.

    New tactical systems and control interfaces, may be developed as necessary to accommodate player feedback on the issue, and as needed with the release of new, playable species. Mostly just tweaking. Updates for this aspect will be free, as it may be considered more a matter of asthetics...

    Many players in the Racing genre prefer to use a steering wheel, if they even have the option not to. The same seems here, as I really think I see benefits to at least support the plugin keyboard...all those extra buttons would come in very handy. However, I have every intention of launching development with only the naked controller for inputting. I am confident it can work fairly well by itself. The development team just has to have some insight...

    At your advice, 8-16 for the Indie launch version sounds fine. As far as a contract for Arcade, I am, of course, hoping the results of the ORP Indie development are good enough for MS to consider buying the IP outright and then develop for Console Release. I only see Indie as a stepping stone, and from there on up to wherever MS/the players, express interest. But my highest goal is development expressly for an MMO variant, which I will be Pitching around...

    I expect to press in on the limit, but that depends on what the Programmers can do, of course. As far as price, I am aiming mid-range for the Indie, but will go higher if we need to press up to the 150MB limit.
    Favorite Genre: Racing / Console of Choice: Xbox 360 / Creator-Designer, "ORP" / Current Partners: "Donitz",
  • 8/28/2009 9:09 PM In reply to

    Re: FEEDBACK WANTED: Premise/General Concepts Stage(ORP)

    For the physics dynamics alone you're asking for a commercial grade physics engine. Judging by these other requirements, you need professional or semi-professional programmers to effectively be your project for you; so much of this design is built around the skill of your programmers. The scope is just too grand for it to be a college kid's homework assignment. People are going to expect to get paid for this work, and I don't mean "a percentage of the profits when its sold." Too many projects fail before they hit the market.

    I don't want you to feel offended, but I don't really get the impression you're adding anything except your own ideas to the project; and a lot of people who know how to program and hang out in indie game development forums have plenty of their own ideas they like to explore. To make it as that guy who has the ideas but doesn't contribute anything tangible, you really have to get organized and demonstrate what it means to you. Make mock screenshots, write up the full design documents, set up a team collaboration portal and source-control server, demonstrate that you can organize artists and musicians and programmers to all be working together, lay out your marketing plan, have regular meetings on Skype, set up contingencies if a team member drops out, etc. Without these pieces in motion, you're going to come off as the guy who thinks he just went to the drive-thru at McDonalds and ordered a custom game cooked to order.

    Organizing a successful project like this is a rough, thankless job. You have to ask yourself if you're not going to be bored or sick of doing it in a year from now. I don't want you to take this post as me saying its impossible; its not. Saying that would be hypocritical of me, considering I started an XNA game with the same goal (building a publisher relationship) and now we're getting ready to send a play demo to Steam.

    [Edit] I don't know why those two lines are highlighted in white. I certainly didn't do it. Well, I guess if the post was going to emphasize words for me, it could have done worse.
  • 9/12/2009 6:31 PM In reply to

    Re: FEEDBACK WANTED: Premise/General Concepts Stage(ORP)

    TO: MrLeebo
    I know. I AM thinking of an actual XBOX release, after all. Competing on the market at that level is intense and you can't do anything half-assed. After checking out the Fatal Inertia demo, I'm thinking the Unreal engine may be the thing.

    As to the Programmers, all I need are serious hobbyists or a semi-professional with interest in the concept. All I see myself involved deeply with is an nitial proof-of-concepts private development or Indie Games release. Arcade and full console will be way out of my league. All I can be concerned with is IP development and branding, as I have no knowledge or experience in any of the important fields.

    I'm not looking to create an indie development company, just concept and aid in the development of an IP that can offered to an established developer or publisher for Arcade or full console at a reasonable price, in accordance with returns all involved wish on their efforts up to whatever point. Amounts for the artists, proof-of-concepts programmers and any musicians that happen to get involved.

    Video games are cool and addictive and everything, but I am not into most genres. Pinball, Racing and certain RPs and Poke'mon. Pinball is a somewhat static genre, RPs are of limited interest to me and Poke'mon isn't something I can do about - though I certainly had lots of ideas, just that the NDS is a severely limiting platform. That leaves Racing, and I'm into Fantasy and Sci-fi, so wheels are not "hot" enough. That narrows it down to F-Zero with Nintendo, Wipeout with Sony and Quantum Redshift and Fatal Inertia with Microsoft, plus several on PC. New ideas and unique gameplay are a good ticket nowadays...

    Even Episodes on Indie Games could really work if they are progressive enough. That way, development costs are it-pay-as-it-goes and the development team can bail whenever things fall off, or stay on board until that hoped for day...

    Favorite Genre: Racing / Console of Choice: Xbox 360 / Creator-Designer, "ORP" / Current Partners: "Donitz",
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