Hi Microsoft team,
  Since Visual Studio 2005 supports the embedding of non-C# languages, will this mean that these other languages will be able to make use of the content-pipeline auto-associating once XNA 2.0 is released?

I can't wait for the release of 2.0! Any official release dates?

xna game studio 2.0 will support visual studio 2005. so you are able to write the code in the language of your choice.

Where did you hear this?

I realize that 2.0 will support the full VS 2005, however, where is it implied that XNA could handle un-managed code, like C++?

I highly doubt the guys at XNA wrote in functionality for C++ and VB over the course of the last year without releasing any betas for it.

I saw the gamefest stream

Well I don't see how it is possible in such a short amount of time since 1.0, however that would be awesome if C++ worked for XNA. Opens up a whole slew of plug-ins like physics engines for example.

when my understanding is right, they will ship xna 2.0 at the end of this year and there will be a version for hobbyists and professional developers. don't know if there won't be an express version anymore. the time will tell.

comm552:

when my understanding is right, they will ship xna 2.0 at the end of this year and there will be a version for hobbyists and professional developers. don't know if there won't be an express version anymore. the time will tell.

I thought one of the big points of the keynote was that it was only one version?  No more Express or Pro, just XNA Game Studio.

I can only speculate here, but I imagine the interface with VS 2005 Pro will mean you can use any *managed* language.  So, Managed C++ would probably work.  Accessing the XNA assemblies from unmanaged C++ would not work, however.

Also, keep in mind that there is no restriction even now on what language to use.  You can use VB, Managed C++, etc. to write XNA games.  The only thing you lose is the automatic content pipeline building from the Visual C# IDE.  And on the 360, you would need a C# stub to launch your program, but its perfectly possible to write a XNA 360 game in Managed C++ as a separate project, then use a GSE C# project to just launch it, as long as you dont write any C++ code that can't be compiled directly to IL.

ShawMishrak:

And on the 360, you would need a C# stub to launch your program

Just to clarify, if your language's .NET compiler compiles native Compact Framework code you do NOT need any C# stub. Package it up as a .ccgame and it will run on the Xbox 360 without any problems. I've done exactly this using Chrome.

Thanks for everyone's input, I hope someone from Microsoft can confirm what everyone here is saying.

Express isn't going anywhere! It is vital that hobbyists and beginners have access to a free set of development tools for Windows. Support for VC# Express isn't going away in 2.0.

C# will still be the only supported language, but you will be able to use Visual Studio Pro or Enterprise or whatever the other SKUs are called.

Brandon Bloom:

Express isn't going anywhere! It is vital that hobbyists and beginners have access to a free set of development tools for Windows. Support for VC# Express isn't going away in 2.0.

Sorry if I was unclear.  I was referring to the statement in the keynote that mentioned that there would be no Express or Pro versions of XNA, just a single XNA Game Studio... I was not referring to the Visual C# product.

ShawMishrak:

Brandon Bloom:

Express isn't going anywhere! It is vital that hobbyists and beginners have access to a free set of development tools for Windows. Support for VC# Express isn't going away in 2.0.

Sorry if I was unclear.  I was referring to the statement in the keynote that mentioned that there would be no Express or Pro versions of XNA, just a single XNA Game Studio... I was not referring to the Visual C# product.

I think what was intended is that they won't bother having two XNA APIs. There will just be one XNA Game Studio which will integrate into either IDE. The primary language will still be C#, but as to whether or not the content pipeline will be supported in other languages... maybe. The only reason it doesn't work with other languages right now is the IDE. So it seems logical that since the MSBuild task that makes the content has no idea what language you are using, that any language that works in one of the supported IDEs that compiles to MSIL should work just fine. But that's just my take on things.

In XNA Game Studio 2.0, the Content Pipeline will not be integrated into other language projects. We are still only supporting C#.

XNA Game Studio 2.0 will install into both Visual Studio 2005, and VC# 2005 Express Edition. However, none of the XNA game templates will be in any language other than C#. In addition, the Content Pipeline integration will continue to be exclusive to the XNA game project types. Although the Content Pipeline doesn't care what project invokes it, the IDE has no idea how to configure the Content Pipeline unless an XNA game project has been loaded.

That all sounds fine. And it is very reassuring to know that there will still be support for VC# express (2005). What I want to know, though, is if there will still be a Creator's Club requirement for beta testing your software on the XBox 360? Is the interface for testing XNA-developed games going to be the same as before? With so much more functionality being added to the XNA API, you would think that the restrictions on testing your game would be loosened a bit. Especially if the actual API is being unified. (rather than being divided into hobbyist and developer versions)

All I can say is that XNA 2.0 sounds awesome, congratulations to Microsoft for getting this developed so quickly I know it cant have been easy.

I would like to know more about the networking capabilities, does the XBOX use UDP or some other protocol for its multiplayer capabilities?

Some code snippets on how the networking would be utilised would be excellent if its not too much to ask?

Richard Kaine:

What I want to know, though, is if there will still be a Creator's Club requirement for beta testing your software on the XBox 360?

I do not expect this requirement to change in the foreseeable future. Our desktop tools are free, and you can develop for and redistribute the XNA Framework for Windows for free. However, a valid Creators Club subscription is required to run the development tools on the Xbox 360.

The Creators Club subscription is intended to be for game creators. At some point, we will introduce a way to play community-developed games on the Xbox 360 without a Creators Club subscription, but we haven't announced any details on how or when that will happen.

 

Any usable game networking will be based upon UDP (BTW, there are only 2 choices, TCP or UDP - TCP is useless for realtime internet games, as long stalls can easily occur).

Andy.

Well there is a tradeoff TCP is ordered and reliable, UDP is really just fire and forget. If it doesn't matter if the packet ever gets to its destination and the sender doesn't care if it does or not then UDP is just fine ;p

I appreciate that you can implement your own flow control over UDP. UDP is obviously a lot faster if all is well.

The upcoming networking API uses a reliable UDP implementation that allows you to flag individual packets with delivery flags. There are two flags, indicating whether you want:

1. Guaranteed delivery
2. Sequential delivery

You can set none, either, or both, giving you four delivery options in all. Setting the various flags will affect performance of the protocol, but you have the flexibility to choose what suits your game and the data you are sending.

 

Will all users be able to get access to the new networking API, or will we require a signed title with Microsoft?

Networking will be for everyone. Some Live features are withheld for signed titles though (achievements etc).

ShawMishrak:

I can only speculate here, but I imagine the interface with VS 2005 Pro will mean you can use any *managed* language.  So, Managed C++ would probably work.  Accessing the XNA assemblies from unmanaged C++ would not work, however.

I remember reading somewhere that the C++/CLI generated som MSIL opcodes that the compact framework's CLR didn't understand (their mnemonics were pushany, loadany or something along those lines). Unless I'm mistaken here, only VB.NET, C# and possibly languages like Boo and IronPython would work.

-Markus-

C++/CLI has been reported as OK as long as you use the /pure flag for compilation

VB.Net has not had any MSIL problems reported but you must not use any of the VB specific libraries including the My. namespace

Boo and Iron Python have not been tested by anyone to my knowledge....

But you all knew that already becuase its in the FAQ right.... http://forums.xna.com/thread/7267.aspx which I just updated with GSE 2.0 information

... I still prefer C# :-D

Cygon4:

I remember reading somewhere that the C++/CLI generated som MSIL opcodes that the compact framework's CLR didn't understand

There are two unrelated issues here:

1. Does code compiled using language X run on the Xbox 360 Framework?
2. Does the IDE for language X support the XNA Framework?

The answer to question 1 depends entirely on the language. The FAQ ZMan linked to lists the answers for many languages. Some work. Some don't. Others kind-of work if you are careful.

The answer to question 2 is much simpler. Today:

    if (IDE == C# Express)
           yes
    else
           no

Coming in version 2:

    if (IDE = C# project loaded into any flavor of Visual Studio)
           yes
    else
           no

In other words, we are only doing IDE work to integrate the XNA Framework into the C# project system, and not currently supporting the project systems for any other languages. In the absence of this IDE work, you miss out on exactly two things:

• Content pipeline integration
• The ability to deploy and debug on Xbox 360
  

Now, you may be just fine without those things. Maybe you're making a Windows game that doesn't use the Content Pipeline. In that case you don't care about our IDE integration, so the lack of it will not hurt you, and you can use any .NET langauge you like.

If you want to use the Content Pipeline, or deploy to Xbox, you can still do that by building your other-language code into an assembly, then using a stub C# project that links with this assembly to build your content, deploy to Xbox, and then call into your real assembly as soon as it starts up. It's a hack, but some people have reported success working this way.

IronPython doesn't work on the 360 because it depends on System.Reflection.Emit which is currently unavailable on that platform.