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RE: Time Limits

Last post 11/3/2009 7:37 PM by Jim Perry. 31 replies.
  • 11/3/2009 10:21 AM In reply to

    Re: RE: Time Limits

    Kneedeep in Duty:
    I'm really confused on why you think that the 8 minute timer should somehow be negated by updating the review guidelines to exply that a game can't be given away for free in its entirety during that trial.
    The updated guidelines were put in place to counter two things that were seen:

    1) People locking you completely out of the trial. Some games (the video apps) had trials which were nothing more than a main menu. This is against the rules because users cannot trial your game, even within the framework enforced eight minute trial.
    2) People giving the entire game away. Some games are completely playable in 8 minutes with no replayability and this is not allowed. Games should have a reason to purchase them, e.g. locked levels, modes, content, features, etc.

    This means that every reviewer currently (with the mandatory eight minute trial) is required to make sure that there is a trial experience of some kind and that the trial doesn't give the entire game away. If we removed the mandatory timed trial, reviewers would still need to make sure there is a trial experience and that the trial doesn't give the entire game away. The duties of the reviewer don't change at all.

    The reason the mandatory timed trial originally existed was to make sure that games weren't being given away for free. Now reviewers are required to test for that to make sure games aren't being given away for free within the time limit. If reviewers already have to test that a game isn't being given away for free, why not let developers have their pick of trial mode instead of forcing them into a timed system that might not work for their game?

    Reviewers don't have any more work, developers get more freedom, and consumers get potentially better trial experiences. Couple that with an easy option for developers to just default to the normal timed mode (for developers whose games work with that timer or just the lazy developers) and you have a vast improvement in the quality of trial experience on XBLIG.

    Kneedeep in Duty:
    If you want to make the argument that 8 minutes isn't enough then you really need to come correct and show how that isn't the case.  I've yet to see anything on XBLIG that even comes close.
    I've already given two examples of games on XBLIG that would benefit from longer trials. There's also the consideration that most games on XBLIG won't feel like they need more than 8 minutes because they've all been designed around that restriction. The types of games that require longer trials are likely the types of games developers are ignoring knowing that they won't be able to make an adequate trial experience. Tower defense and other strategy games will likely take a new player more than eight minutes to understand and feel comfortable enough to purchase.
  • 11/3/2009 12:11 PM In reply to

    Re: RE: Time Limits

    caedicus:
    Can I not make suggestions that might make the service better for the developers in the future?

    Sure, but these forums aren't the place to do that. If you've been here any length of time you should know that. You should also know that it's been suggested at least a dozen times to remove the trial time.
    Jim Perry - Microsoft XNA MVP
    If people spent a minute searching the forums and reading the FAQs before posting I'd be out of a job.
      Got some XNA Game Studio/XNA Framework development info to share with the community? Put it on the XNA Wiki.
        Please mark posts as Answers or Good Feedback when appropriate.
  • 11/3/2009 12:49 PM In reply to

    Re: RE: Time Limits

    As one of the developers behind Crate Expectations I am wholeheartedly behind this suggestion.
    I've added a comment to the connect issue.

    I do think this is very important issue to discuss and the more people that see this topic the more people will actively participate in this and other connect issues. If we only ever submitted connect issues without forum topics then I don't think many people would see and vote on those issues.

    Alex
    An update for Crate Expectations is in Peer Review right now!
    Show it some love and help us to get this new and improved version out to people :)
    Thank you!
  • 11/3/2009 1:27 PM In reply to

    Re: RE: Time Limits

    Submitting a Connect issue and posting the link is fine, but inevitably there ends up being a couple of pages where people rant and beat that poor old dead horse.
    Jim Perry - Microsoft XNA MVP
    If people spent a minute searching the forums and reading the FAQs before posting I'd be out of a job.
      Got some XNA Game Studio/XNA Framework development info to share with the community? Put it on the XNA Wiki.
        Please mark posts as Answers or Good Feedback when appropriate.
  • 11/3/2009 6:49 PM In reply to

    Re: RE: Time Limits

    Jim Perry:
    caedicus:
    Can I not make suggestions that might make the service better for the developers in the future?

    Sure, but these forums aren't the place to do that. If you've been here any length of time you should know that. You should also know that it's been suggested at least a dozen times to remove the trial time.

    Well you won't hear from me on this topic any more then...don't really like being insulted when I'm just trying to improve a service. :-(
  • 11/3/2009 7:21 PM In reply to

    Re: RE: Time Limits

    I like the idea of people having options on things, Trials now being added to that list. In my previous games i would have loved to make more levels available to play, instead i made special Trial mode levels. But with a timer that does not take into account the players skill level, they are sort of broken i guess.

    I made so many levels that giving away 10 of 100 would have been minor to me, but that would have required about 12 minutes or so playtime.

    Anyway, I just wanted to add that i actually enjoyed adding in special levels to demo the numerous enemies i designed and coded, even if they did not quite fit together on the trial levels seamlessly.
  • 11/3/2009 7:37 PM In reply to

    Re: RE: Time Limits

    caedicus:
    Well you won't hear from me on this topic any more then...don't really like being insulted when I'm just trying to improve a service. :-(

    There was no insult there. I'm just telling you how it is.
    Jim Perry - Microsoft XNA MVP
    If people spent a minute searching the forums and reading the FAQs before posting I'd be out of a job.
      Got some XNA Game Studio/XNA Framework development info to share with the community? Put it on the XNA Wiki.
        Please mark posts as Answers or Good Feedback when appropriate.
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