There have been some interesting discussions going on around the forums about build vs. buy (specifically when it comes to products like the TorqueX game engines).

The posts seem to indicate that people are happy with the expense of a 3rd party engine product as a function of their overall development costs.

IMHO, I couldn't justify the cost of some of these products which got me to thinking...if I can't spend say $1000 on building my game, then how could I ever expect it to generate any real interest?

I've read forum posts in the early days of folks that really seemed to be "betting the farm" on their Indie Games project.

I'm just kind of curious, what are community members investing in their games?  Are we giving up our day jobs?  Are we taking out small loans?

When have we "crossed the line" from being indie developers to being small studios?  Are any Indie Games projects being funded by 3rd party capital?

I suspect I've been on the conservative side...building cheap and putting only my "spare time" into my project.  That has been reflected in the game's less-than-mediocre performance in the Marketplace.

I'm just curious...thanks for any responses.
--Chapel

I spent over $1,300 on my first game (mostly in art/music assets). This doesn't include my time obviously. I've yet to make a third of that back and at my current rate it will take years to do so... probably have to do a PC release to make it worthwhile. Somewhere in the sales thread I have a much more detailed account of this if interested.

For my current game I have spent $0 out of pocket funds. I think I may end up buying a couple sound effects and title music, but that will likely be it. So it should be under $200 when all is said and done. I think I will easily make this back and be profitable within a month (how profitable has yet to be seen).

A few developers I've seen have done really well, but I think most make somewhere near what my first game made. Unless one of my games does really well, I will be doing more of the artwork / sound effects myself and seaking royalty free music (if it fits) in order to keep costs as low as possible. This is still a hobby to me and I can't afford to keep going in the red because of it. Spending a lot of money here is too risky for me... A couple games have done well, but I fear spending a lot (or just as much as I did on my first game) and having it do as badly again.

At this point I'm focusing on doing as much of the game for free as possible and trying to keep release windows shorter (game 1 took 8 months, game 2 should take four, and I would like to see that shorted to 2-3 months for my future games, which likely means decreasing their scope... I think that's okay since 80 point games sell well and users only seem to expect a few hours worth of playtime).

I've got a pretty solid 2D game engine built right now too (I learned doing Nasty, I rebuilt from the ground up for Abduction Action!) which I think will really help in reducing development time and allowing me to concetrate on gameplay instead of technical hurdles.

I'm also trying to make each game better than the last :)

Chapel:

I suspect I've been on the conservative side...building cheap and putting only my "spare time" into my project.  That has been reflected in the game's less-than-mediocre performance in the Marketplace.

I'm just curious...thanks for any responses.
--Chapel

By no means does "cheap" = poor performance on Marketplace.  I think what equals poor performance on Marketplace is something that's just "meh" and probably not all that fun to play.  To be clear, that's not directed at you or your game, it's a general observation of mine as it applies to all games -- indie or retail.

Common sense tells me that anyone can most definitely (absolutely) make something very fun and very compelling with nothing more than their "spare time" and some creativity.

I haven't heard of too many people around these forums betting the farm on their indie games development.

Me personally, I'm taking my 10+ years of industry experience, getting out of the rat race that pro game dev can frequently turn into, and trying to capitalize on that experience in my free time.  Which effectively equates to "spare time" budget or whatever you want to call it.  Aside from my spare time, I've spent little bits of money on some networking equipment, some computer hardware here and there -- mostly just essentials that I (and the everyday computer developer) probably would have bought anyway.

In addition to that, I'll probably end up dropping some $$ on royalty free music and sound effects.  So, all of that considered equates to a pretty low $$ total.

I personally find this scene to be a breath of fresh air and consider the free time well spent, regardless of whatever comes of it.

I've also spent little to nothing on my project and devoted only my free time to it, which is why it isn't released yet. I don't have any intention of quitting my job or making this a full time endeavor - I'll continue to make games, though they might be a little more simple going forward.

There's definitely something to be said for having the freedom and time to work on your game during daylight hours. I could probably wrap up mine in 3-4 days of solid work, but instead it will take several weeks of finding time to squeeze it in.

The 3-4 games I have in the works have no budget. I may invest some money in the later ones based on how well the first ones do.

Chapel:

I suspect I've been on the conservative side...building cheap and putting only my "spare time" into my project.  That has been reflected in the game's less-than-mediocre performance in the Marketplace.
...
--Chapel

Part of the problem is that you need to market your game.

You've posted to this forum, but your signature does not even include the name of your game.  Don't miss any tricks.  Include the name, a short description and a link to your fantastic game web site showing videos and screen shots and where to buy...   please tell me that you have some screen shots...  at least a web site...  a dedicated forum...

:-)

Anyway to answer your question.  Like many here I am a hobby programmer, I do it for fun to satisfy me that I can do it.  I will write the code and I will attempt to produce the artwork myself all in my spare time.

I am writting a first person shooter.  A genre that is swamped by fantastic high budget products that there is no way I can compete with.
I don't expect to make any money.

That said, I am contemplating buying some of the 3D models because you can get some very good ones for only US $ 100 and quite frankly because I have the day job I can easily afford that.

By the way, I am not marketing my game yet because I haven't done enought to market anything.  I have already got the web site and as soon as the game has a final name and some screenshots it will be in my signature.

Regards

Budget? What budget?

I spent nothing building my two games (Bloc and Pixel Man). Pixel Man has made me around $1300 or so, which is pretty good considering it took no money and about 12 hours to make. I also likely won't spend money on future titles, at least in the foreseeable future.

I totally agree with the need for marketing, and to be clear...I'm not complaining about my game's Marketplace performance...I certainly didn't do it for the money.  I did it for the love of the process.  I enjoy playing and making games...so I'd do this all day if I had no other responsibilities.

But I'm just curious how many are into this like I am (conservatively involved and not expecting any real returns) and how many are really trying to make a full blown, life supporting job out of this?

Marketing comes with a cost as well.  Sure there are the "free" and incidental marketing tricks...but I'm curious if anyone is really marketing their game with some significant capital.

It sounds to me like most people are willing to invest some coin...maybe in the early 4-figure range.  But I'm kind of curious if there are some high 5 or even 6 figure development efforts going on around here.

Thanks for all the responses...good stuff all around.
--Chapel

Chapel:

But I'm just curious how many are into this like I am (conservatively involved and not expecting any real returns) and how many are really trying to make a full blown, life supporting job out of this?

Right now I'm like you, not expecting much. I do secretly hope that someday I can quit doing anything else and just make my games for a living, but I can't say I'm really trying that hard at it right now. :P

Chapel:

It sounds to me like most people are willing to invest some coin...maybe in the early 4-figure range.  But I'm kind of curious if there are some high 5 or even 6 figure development efforts going on around here.

IIRC, Biology Battle cost $100,000 to build (counting paying employees and what not) but, also IIRC, they only made back about 30-40% of that. Spending that much on a game for XBLIG, you better know that you can make it back since most people just aren't.

But then you look at I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MBIES which, as far as I can guess, cost James no real money besides a few weeks of time and has made him a year's salary already. Spending money != making money. I think that's an important thing for people to remember.

Chapel:

But I'm just curious how many are into this like I am (conservatively involved and not expecting any real returns) and how many are really trying to make a full blown, life supporting job out of this?

I'm trying to make this a life supporting job (which is why it's doubly disappointing Nasty did poorly). I realize that this isn't something that will happen quickly though and am moreso looking at 5 years down the road as a time when I may be able to do this fulltime... I figure the residuals from 10+ games at that point (not nessassarily all on XBLIGs) along with the ability to do games more quickly (since I won't have a dayjob and will hopefully be a better programmer) will make it easier. I need to make more on games than I do now (due to the fact I will have to pay for insurrance out of pocket) for this to happen, so it's not going to be easy but worth it to me... ever since I really started getting into the XNA programming, I find it much less interesting to do application programming (day job) and spend far too much time wishing I were working on one of my games.

I'm currently spending 15-20 hours a week on my games (sometimes more)... two in development now, one other (Nasty) that I'm doing occasional updates for. I'd spend more time too if I had any more to spend.

Kris Steele:

I'm currently spending 15-20 hours a week on my games (sometimes more)... two in development now, one other (Nasty) that I'm doing occasional updates for. I'd spend more time too if I had any more to spend.

The time investment question is absolutely huge.  Many of us are "in the business" in that we are programmers for a living.  I'm the chief software architect at my job...which means when ANY project at my office is in "crunch time"...I'm in crunch time.  So I've gone 4-6 months of straight 80 hour weeks.  Coming home and telling the Mrs. that I'll be spending another 3+ hours working on my game is about enough to get me a divorce (and you thought game development was expensive...try a divorce!).

I also sympathize with being less and less interested in "day job" programming and more and more drawn to my game projects.  Sometimes weeks go by when I can't really get engaged at work because I just want to get home and finish that prototype or try that new algorithm.

I agree that the good graphics and  sound are HUGE when it comes to getting noticed.  I suspect next year's Indie Game crop will show significant improvements in these areas.

It amazes me (and terrifies me) that some teams lost $60K+ on their projects...but I guess it's a calculated risk.

I also think that the increasing volume of titles is not really a good thing for individual projects.  It might be good for Indie Games as a whole...but the more projects get released....the harder it will be for any individual project to be found.  IE the haystack is getting bigger...but each individual project is still just a needle.

I think I may invest more in my next game.  Maybe somewhere in the $2K-$3K range...I was thinking of buying a new PC to build my next game on, but maybe I'll limp through one more title with my current rig and spend some coin on artwork and sound.  If the game sells...I can buy a PC with the proceeds...if not...there's always next year.

--Chapel

Chapel:

It amazes me (and terrifies me) that some teams lost $60K+ on their projects...but I guess it's a calculated risk.

I don't know how a team could calculate that they'd recoup $60K for a new service like XBLIG. There's just no way I'd ever invest that kind of money, unless I could sell it on the PC as well over something like Steam that has an existing client base.

Chris Covington:

Budget? What budget?

lol likewise. My time thats my budget. ;)

The Riddler 24:

Chris Covington:

Budget? What budget?

lol likewise. My time thats my budget. ;)

I think we all have a budget...even if it's a very small one.  My budget for my first Indie Game was around $240 ($100 for Creators Club, $50 for Xbox LIVE, and $90 for some royalty free music).

That was all the capital expenditure I put into that game.

But some folks might be paying $400 for game engines and another $1000 for artwork assets and maybe some coin for music.

I can easily see a game costing the developer $2500 without much of a strain on my imagination...that's more than 10 times what I spent.

I guess everyone has a threshold...I'm just curious how seriously people are pursuing this.

I think most of us...if given the choice...would take a high paying game development job over our current jobs.  But I'm well aware that my earning potential is much higher in my day job than it would be as an Indie Game developer...so I stick to my day job.

Chapel:

I think most of us...if given the choice...would take a high paying game development job over our current jobs.  But I'm well aware that my earning potential is much higher in my day job than it would be as an Indie Game developer...so I stick to my day job.

What's really turned me off from a professional game development career is time. I hear many stories of long hours trying to make release dates. I have a young daughter and I want to be there for her, not stuck at work 60-80 hours a week for months at a time. That's another reason why indie game development is so attrative... work from home, work when I have time, never have to miss anything.

My current job isn't perfect, but it's never much more than 40 hours a week and they're pretty flexible when I can come and when i can go.

Chapel:

I guess everyone has a threshold...I'm just curious how seriously people are pursuing this.

Daniel Hanson:

Chapel:

I guess everyone has a threshold...I'm just curious how seriously people are pursuing this.

I plan on slowly ramping up. My first game has a $0 budget. My next game will probably have a $400-1000 budget, using the profits (if any) from the previous game. After that, maybe $2000-3000. From there, who knows? I just hope to continue slowly building up on my successes until I have to decide whether to keep my day job. That means I've succeeded. :)

Hey thats my plan. ;) Heres to hopping.

Kris Steele:

I hear many stories of long hours trying to make release dates. I have a young daughter and I want to be there for her, not stuck at work 60-80 hours a week for months at a time.

Crunch Time is different at different companies. And in fact, many software development companies have something similar, if not exactly the same.

IIRC, the game company I interned at (Pi Studios) had a standard Crunch Time of 65 hours/week for 1 month (10am-10pm M-F, 12pm-5pm Sat), with compensation time after the product ships (with 65hr/wk for 1mo, I believe comp time would be 12-13 days off). On the other hand, I've heard Crunch Time at EA can run something like 85 hr/wk for 3 months. And that's not counting the 'mild crunch' of ~50hr/wk for a month or two, or the 'pre-crunch' of ~45hr/wk before that. Some companies are, obviously, better than others. =/

Like several people already mentioned I think time is the most bigger budget thing.

In my experience, overtime and crunch in the games industry isn't so much about the company your working for as the specific studio, project and manager.

I've been on projects with very little crunch (there's always _some_ crunch before big deadlines), and said crunch only affected a few key people not the whole team.  The same company, but different project and teams, I've had "mandatory" overtime and weekends and months of crunch.

My budget is pretty low, considering I'm doing art myself.  And fortunately I already had all of the software/hardware I needed from my normal work.  My biggest expense so far has been music, which I've set aside several thousand for.

I originally started this as a hobby, but I suppose now I am 'betting the farm'.  This year's farm anyway.

I bet my little saving on this. (my girlfriend jobs is helping a lot) I've loose my daily job 6 month ago. I haven't search a job since. I spend my day doing Pionner ( and recently another game) ^^. If after two or three games, I see i cannot live of it. I will came back to the video game indutry and his foolish hours of work. The budget is really low. I do nearly all by myself : MU card = 50E RPG maker licensee : 60 E. and it's all... My premium account came from DBP!

I get all fonts and sound effects from royalty free sources, I agree a percentage of the profits with the artists (or do it myself), and ask musicians if I can use their music in my games (which 99% are happy to let me use for free). I have a computer and Xbox and Gold Account anyway so my only cost is the Membership and my spare time!