What i'm concerned with is that if your game is good enough to win this competition, it is likely good enough to do well commercially on its own.

Now, i don't know what the process is for getting an independent title on Live Arcade, but I bet it would be more profitable in the long run to do it that way than thru this competition. 

mike 3DEVOLUTIN:

Hello can we allow people to download a realtime demo of the game before we submit the game to dreambuild play

like the april update a binary demo so that people can download and try it out on the xbox360

to get some user imput

Mykre:

I agree I would like to know if we are able to supply demos and such for play testing.

There's nothing in the rules that prevent you from doing this.  There's equally nothing there that requires you to do this.  How you approach your game is entirely up to you.

--dave

Pierog13:

What i'm concerned with is that if your game is good enough to win this competition, it is likely good enough to do well commercially on its own.

Now, i don't know what the process is for getting an independent title on Live Arcade, but I bet it would be more profitable in the long run to do it that way than thru this competition. 

The contract you would get independently or from this contest are the same contract negotiated with the same team. 

--dave

Epsicode:

I'm concerned because I've forgotten my account's password and there is no password recovery feature on the DBP website.

I've sent an e-mail regarding this issue last week (to admin@) and I haven't got any reply. 

 Do you have any contact with the webmasters ? I can't submit my game if I can't login
 

Epsicode:

 Do you have any contact with the webmasters ? I can't submit my game if I can't login
 

shoot another email to admin@dreambuildplay.com.  I'll ask that they be on the lookout for it.

--dave

Nanto Seiken:

Edua:

I'd like to know a little more. I've read the rules, but I guess I'd like to know how this would work in a little more detail. Suppose a team develops a game and enters it in the contest. In the event that the game submitted does not win any awards, does the developer still has the right to try and publish/sell their game without any consideration to this contest? If the developer DOES win a prize in the contest, can they still pursue their own publishing/selling channels?

Absolutely.  Even if you are the grand prize winner and would prefer to have your game published by someone else and wish to turn down the Xbox Live Arcade contract, you may do so.  They game and its associated IP is yours.  I'd of course still like to promote it but that is a detail I'd work out with you.

Just to clarify: Can you have a contract with XBLA, AND a contract with someone else, say Steam or whatever? 

Also, would  it be ok if the winning team only wanted the game put up on XBLA, but don't want to get an actual contract? The reason I'm asking is, I'personally have a non-compete clause in my contract with my employer, so I'm not sure what they would think of my team putting a game on XBLA yet.

Just to be extra clear: The contract the winner gets is the same deal as any other XBLA game developer gets, right? I don't mean that they all get the same amount of money or anything like that, just that it _is_ a "real" contract and not just "we'll put your game up on XBLA and we'll take all the earnings ourselves! Muhaha!". ;)

 Also, a final question (perhaps not entirely related to this thread) : is there any information anywhere on how much XBLA games sell, and how much of that the developers get? Or is that top secret? :)

 Also, a final question (perhaps not entirely related to this thread) : is there any information anywhere on how much XBLA games sell, and how much of that the developers get? Or is that top secret? :)

Jeff Tunnell (one of the founders of GarageGames) has a blog where he talked about this, and other "money" topics you may be interested in:

How much money can your XBLA game make?

How Much Money Can Indie Games Make?

Srekel:

Also, would  it be ok if the winning team only wanted the game put up on XBLA, but don't want to get an actual contract? The reason I'm asking is, I'personally have a non-compete clause in my contract with my employer, so I'm not sure what they would think of my team putting a game on XBLA yet.

You need to consult with a lawyer if you worry about this.  I suppose the worst case is getting fired + sued + a bad rep in the industry.

Waruwaru:

Srekel:

Also, would  it be ok if the winning team only wanted the game put up on XBLA, but don't want to get an actual contract? The reason I'm asking is, I'personally have a non-compete clause in my contract with my employer, so I'm not sure what they would think of my team putting a game on XBLA yet.

You need to consult with a lawyer if you worry about this.  I suppose the worst case is getting fired + sued + a bad rep in the industry.

Nanto Seiken:

Epsicode:

 Do you have any contact with the webmasters ? I can't submit my game if I can't login
 

shoot another email to admin@dreambuildplay.com.  I'll ask that they be on the lookout for it.

--dave

Thank you
 

Srekel:

Just to clarify: Can you have a contract with XBLA, AND a contract with someone else, say Steam or whatever? 

Also, would  it be ok if the winning team only wanted the game put up on XBLA, but don't want to get an actual contract? The reason I'm asking is, I'personally have a non-compete clause in my contract with my employer, so I'm not sure what they would think of my team putting a game on XBLA yet.

You can always decline the contract if you manage to win it.  The option is yours.

 

Just to be extra clear: The contract the winner gets is the same deal as any other XBLA game developer gets, right? I don't mean that they all get the same amount of money or anything like that, just that it _is_ a "real" contract and not just "we'll put your game up on XBLA and we'll take all the earnings ourselves! Muhaha!". ;)

The contract, contract process and team you'd be working with on the contracts are the same and yes, it is a "real" contract. 

 Also, a final question (perhaps not entirely related to this thread) : is there any information anywhere on how much XBLA games sell, and how much of that the developers get? Or is that top secret? :)

Look both here and back at our old msdn.com/xna sites for the Gamefest 2006 talks as well as GDC 2007 presentations on Casual Games or XBLA.  If they're publicly discussed, they'll be in there.  How much (many?) games sell is obviously entirely dependent on the game itself and the appeal to our more than 6 million Xbox Live consumers.

--dave

Verik Wolf:

My biggest concern is losing control over the intellectual property I've cultivated over the years... the universe, stories, and concepts I've envisioned. My understanding of the contest rules is that MS would be able to use that IP as their own upon submitting an entry into the contest. If by some off chance I created something as interesting as Halo, I fear I wouldn't have control over the IP anymore.

Dave already addressed this concern earlier in this very thread.

Nanto Seiken:

Even if you are the grand prize winner and would prefer to have your game published by someone else and wish to turn down the Xbox Live Arcade contract, you may do so.  They game and its associated IP is yours.  I'd of course still like to promote it but that is a detail I'd work out with you.

Thanks Dave, I've got access to the site now.

But I have a much more serious concern now. This is a quote from the rules:

The Game must: (i) be originally developed (e.g., must not violate or infringe on any applicable law or regulation or third-party rights); (ii) be written in English; (iii) conform to all licensing and use terms for the tools; (iv) not contain any third-party promotion, marketing or advertising in any form or of any kind; (v) not be obscene, indecent, violent, hateful, libelous or contain other offensive or inappropriate content, explicitly or by innuendo, as determined in Sponsor’s reasonable discretion; or (vi) not otherwise be prohibited by law.

No violence ? How can one interpret that ? Super Mario stomping on on enemies head is violent... It's really hard to make a non violent action game for example. Does that rule out all those games ?

My game has a lot of "funny" cartoon violence, does that mean that I cannot enter DBP ? 

"as determined in Sponsor’s reasonable discretion"

Don't make it ultra-violent with blood everywhere, and you'll be fine... Use the games that are currently on Xbox Live as a guide... Worms has funny cartoon violence, so I'm sure your game will be ok.

I think the distiction here would be the difference between E, T and M ratings.  Graphic violence ala Postal = no go.  Squishing mushrooms = okay

Sam and Max type humor???? what would be the ruling on that?

ElectricGrandpa:

"as determined in Sponsor’s reasonable discretion"

Don't make it ultra-violent with blood everywhere, and you'll be fine... Use the games that are currently on Xbox Live as a guide... Worms has funny cartoon violence, so I'm sure your game will be ok.

 

You can download Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, which has a decent amount of gushy fatalities that no one bats an eyelash at now, but were quite shocking ten years ago.

Here's the clincher question: is this too violent?  If so I've wasted quite a bit of time. I could release a toned-down version, but then you're missing all of the game's character. 

Epsicode:

No violence ? How can one interpret that ? Super Mario stomping on on enemies head is violent... It's really hard to make a non violent action game for example. Does that rule out all those games ?

My game has a lot of "funny" cartoon violence, does that mean that I cannot enter DBP ? 

A good rule of thumb is to stack your game up versus what you currently see on Xbox Live Arcade.  Be sensible and you'll be fine.

--dave

I'm not going to censor my game, so we'll, I guess we'll see.
 

Epsicode:

I'm not going to censor my game, so we'll, I guess we'll see.
 

My sentiments.  Gaming is about art, and art is about expression!

I just realized that you can get original Doom on XBLA, which includes:

- blowing humans, demons and zombies into little chunks (complete with meat sauce sound)

- chopping up humans, demons and zombies with a chainsaw

- Satanic imagery

Add to UMK3, which includes:

- decapitations

- dismemberment

- humans in meat grinders

- exploding humans

- Satanic imagery 

and I think we've got a pretty safe bet.  Granted, final decision is up to the judges, but it would seem bizarre for them to let UMK3 and Doom on XBLA yet hold stricter restrictions on XNA people (especially considering that Doom was made in a garage, much like what they're trying to encourage with the XNA phenom).  The violence clause in the entry rule sounds more in the vein of socially uncomfortable violence, like something you'd expect in A Clockwork Orange.  But still, the ambiguity is disheartening.

The enemies in The Dishwasher are actually cyborgs, or humans who've had their mind assimilated to the SINTHESIS A.I. and been given a host of cybernetic enhancements.  That is a plot function, so the blood's gotta stay.  There are robots too, which don't bleed.
 

I'm slightly worried about

 "(iv) not contain any third-party promotion, marketing or advertising in any form or of any kind; "

I'm still designing out my entry and haven't looked into the sound library to much to see if it is possible.

But one of my ideas is to use music from a friends band.  Getting proper rights to use, etc.

But does stating on the title screen something along the lines of "Featuring music by (Artist)" count as a 3rd party promotion?

 Or is there a definition of 3rd party promotion that i'm not seeing?