I do believe that your game will only support achievements when you (or if) you contracted by Microsoft to add your game to XBLA Marketplace. And achievements may not even be implementable at this point. I'm guessing we'll have to wait until XNA 3.0 is released, since that's when this Peer Review thing comes out.

Why dont they just put a achievements list on your gamercard, but excluded from the normal achievements. You know, jsut something to be seen on the game's launch menu (the menu that gives you the option to play a game, download content for it, delete it ect).

Bapa:

I do believe that your game will only support achievements when you (or if) you contracted by Microsoft to add your game to XBLA Marketplace. And achievements may not even be implementable at this point. I'm guessing we'll have to wait until XNA 3.0 is released, since that's when this Peer Review thing comes out.

If you have a publishing agreement and are an official XBLA release then achievements are totally possible for all games including XNA Framework games. The XNA XBLA extensions that were talked about at GDC handle this and other Live features. Extensions are only available for officially published games.

If you publish through the yet to be released Xbox Community games portal then achievements are not available and no matter how long this thread drags on its not going to change any time soon ;-)

MattHenleyXNA:

I would rather give the player an unlockable such as new characters or weapons when they accomplish. People say achievments give a game more replayability, wouldn't getting a brand new weapon, better than the last make you want to play some more?

That's the best point I've seen yet in this thread.  Achievements are cool, I like getting them in my retail games, but I just don't feel a need for them in XNA games.

Getting a poking stick in Little Gamers, on the other hand... that's cool!  ;-)

Tom

Sure it's a tricky problem but it is a problem. Simply not considering it helps nobody. It comes down to this: if MS wants to charge us to download these games then they are retail. Pure and simple. If my MS points get deducted then i've paid for the game.

Achievements would be a very big factor in replay value from the kind of casual games XNA devs are most likely to build. Most games won't have storylines so incentive to continue playing would be greatly increased by working toward well designed achievments.

Not having it devalues the entire XNA Community platform.

CodeMunky:

Sure it's a tricky problem but it is a problem. Simply not considering it helps nobody. It comes down to this: if MS wants to charge us to download these games then they are retail. Pure and simple. If my MS points get deducted then i've paid for the game.

Achievements would be a very big factor in replay value from the kind of casual games XNA devs are most likely to build. Most games won't have storylines so incentive to continue playing would be greatly increased by working toward well designed achievments.

Not having it devalues the entire XNA Community platform.

Sure, but adding it detracts from those companies shelling out $X,000 dollars for dev kits, even more for large teams, and then a bunch on publishing and marketing. If Microsoft alienates them, it wouldn't be very good for business. Who would you rather upset? The three guys in a basement making games or EA? Sure some consumers will feel devalued, but that's why these games are separated from the XBLA games. Users will (should) know going into this section that there are no achievements.

CodeMunky... please read through this whole thread and understand WHY community games cannot do acheivements. Without a code review and certification pass you cannot be assured that the game will not maliciously award acheivements and that will make a mockery of the whole system. Community games can never have that kind of reivew process becuase it simply costs too much. The microsoft guys have totally considered this.... right now there is no easy/cheap/practical solution to the problem so as I have asked several times... if you can come up with a way of ensuring that a community game behaves without costing a fortune then let us all know.

CodeMunky:

It comes down to this: if MS wants to charge us to download these games then they are retail. Pure and simple. If my MS points get deducted then i've paid for the game. 

Who said MS is going to charge you for XNA Community games?

CodeMunky:

Not having it devalues the entire XNA Community platform. 

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. My opinion is that just being able to get my game on the 360 as an indie shows how much MS values the community. You're welcome to try to get your games on the PS3 or Wii. ;) :D

CodeMunky:

Not having it devalues the entire XNA Community platform.

Having it devalues achievements and gamerscore.

Andy Patrick:

CodeMunky:

Not having it devalues the entire XNA Community platform.

Having it devalues achievements and gamerscore.

Agreed.

Sorry to change the 'direction' of this thread, but I have my own opinion and a suggestion.

Achievements [to me] are more about my personal achievements than something to use as bragging rights. To be honest, though, I dont own an XBox [yet] and I'm not 100% sure how achievements affect anything else. Still, all the PC games I've played with achievements (Portal, Team Fortress 2, etc) have posed new challenges to me within the existing realm of the game, and therefore add a certain amount of 'replayability' - even if its just for my own satisfaction.

So, what is stopping you from adding achievements to your game? Sure, you cant add 'official' achievements to your game, but you can definately put your own system in place, storing each user's personal achievements on disk between plays. Even if you [read: your players] dont get anything else by obtaining these achievements - it still adds value to your game. Doesnt it?

I know lots of people around here have talked about adding in-game achievements. It's something I plan to add to my game as well. I agree too. Achievements to me are a personal challenge. Like in Crackdown, collecting all 500 agility orbs. That took months of hard work. And now I have to do the rest. It really keeps me playing that game to have all the achievements it does.

So definitely implement in-game achievements. I think it will still add the goal aspect without detracting from the value of the official achievements and gamerscore.