General

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Streklin — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:54:12 GMT

Nope, no MVP status. I suspect it has to do with the differing laws in different countries that allows for one type of NDA to be possible in one area and not so much in another. However being a programmer and not a legal expert I really can't speculate usefully beyond that on the issue.

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

EvoFx Studio — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:45:37 GMT

mabye that is right but is depents what kiend of nda you have with microsoft are you mvp or somthing

mike

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Streklin — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:29:16 GMT

Maybe that's country specific then, because I have an NDA with Microsoft and did not have to have a registered company to get one. Of course with laws being different from place to place, it may be the case that they require something different outside of the US and Canada?

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

EvoFx Studio — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:27:10 GMT

the main problem here you can not sign a nda with microsoft if you doint have a registred company

registrer a company and conatct microsoft about you game then you will see all the dors are open at microsoft

mike

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Streklin — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:19:48 GMT

I find that extremely surprising that your friend did not get a response. Although they can be slow at times (the people there are buys after all) even as a tiny independant developer I was able to get a response a great deal of feedback and information. I guess everyones experience is different.

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

EvoFx Studio — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:13:16 GMT

the main thing is that the "certification fee is free the first time for your company" and you must have a regestried company and partner with microsoft

my firend tryed to contact microsoft trooh xna.com and get no response, "no company and no partnher"

but we at 3devolution has got response course we have a company and are microsoft partner

when you have a company there is no problem whit the nda you have to sign microsoft only deals whit a company

"xna games can onlye be publish trooh microsoft no one else" that was we have been told here in denmark

mike

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Streklin — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:09:15 GMT

I'm not entirely certain here, but I believe the certification fee depends on who is doing your publishing. If Microsoft has agreed to be the publisher of the game, then I think (assuming I understood everything correctly) they do waive the certification fee. However if you are going through third party publisher X - then that certification fee is likely to come out of your Development budjet (unless your publisher is alturistic).

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

EvoFx Studio — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:07:03 GMT

yes frank hold the session and dave micthell, sharn , mike 3devolution was there and zman thay said it all build your game a get publish that is the most importing thing this is how the commynnity can help

mike

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Nick Gravelyn — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:00:14 GMT

mike 3DEVOLUTIN:
the goal here is xbox360 15 millions online players wating for you game at spring 2008 and the best of it all is the aprove and quality test is free the first time you submit

Do you have a source for that? I fail to believe Microsoft is so altruistic to just waive the certification fee for first-timers. Seems like they would have to spend more on first-timers as they would be more likely to make things improperly.

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

EvoFx Studio — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:48:50 GMT

doint you all get bye now xna is not for windows now, but after spring realease 2008 xna is for windows

right now xna is for xbox360

build your game a get it publish at xbla then you make the xna team happy

"please do'it course xna dossen come cheap for microsoft thay have bugets on xna fromawork"

the goal here is xbox360 15 millions online players wating for you game at spring 2008 and the best of it all is the aprove and quality test is free the first time you submit

develop your game a get is publish on xbla so we can" start up youtube for games on xboxlive acade" you are part of history my frend

that was the things that has been set a gamefest 2007 i was there "xna games for fun and proffit"

and there will be no "pro and hoppyist edition" onley one dest "game studio 2.0"

the first game will be realease at spring 2008 on xbla and windows

hope this help

mike

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Fig — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:42:41 GMT

Lord Ikon:

The things you ask for, like a review process, and the legal issues they would have by letting anyone download your stuff, would easily cost more than a "moderate fee" of $99 would warrant. If you search for this topic this has already been gone over and at the moment they said there is just no way due to legal issues.

from what I have read in several places Microsoft does not approve any game for the XBOX unless they review it.

so I expect that to continue.

I guess I should re-phrase my statement:

I expect MSFT to require this as part of the publishing process based on current information I have seen thus far.

I would welcome an open publish option with a MSFT disclamer if they can get that thru legal.

for example as pointed to by the MSFT FAQ's http://www.microsoftcasualgames.msn.com/developers_xla.htm

that track requires a MSFT review to publish on XB LA

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Lord Ikon — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:22:46 GMT

The things you ask for, like a review process, and the legal issues they would have by letting anyone download your stuff, would easily cost more than a "moderate fee" of $99 would warrant. If you search for this topic this has already been gone over and at the moment they said there is just no way due to legal issues.

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Fig — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:48:03 GMT

Stephen Styrchak:
Fig:

the last bit is exactly right, I am totaly lost that a whole product was built that can not really go very far on the xbox side of things. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that the limitations of the GS product were "temporary" and that a later update (GS 2.0 that works with Visual Studio Pro) would open the door.

Yes, they are temporary. No, GS 2.0 will not yet remove those limitations. In this case, the temporary limitation happens to be for more than one year. That doesn't mean it is never going to change.

Fig:

for example: if I want to build some free games in my spare time to give out for the xbox and using xna in some form will that ever be possible? not a sales deal, just a giveaway.

Yes, if you want to share the game with people who have XNA GSE 1.0 installed, and have an active Creators Club subscription. Otherwise, no.

Fig:

is that "On the radar"?

Yes. We've been working on it since before XNA GSE 1.0 was released. The obstacles are mostly not technical, and the amount of time it will take to resolve all the issues and deliver a working solution to the public has never been well-defined. Any "simple" method of sharing that you might think we've overlooked is either wrought with risk of enormous legal liability, or places a huge maintenance tax in both time and money upon Microsoft. Having these things is a non-starter for us. Avoiding these things takes lawyers and business people. They don't give estimates the same way engineers do.

Fig:

and I think that others are interesting in this also.... for example on this post: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=357044

Yes, other people are asking similar questions, and our answer is always the same. For now, you cannot play XNA GSE-created games on the Xbox 360 without a Creators Club subscription. We are working on something that will change that. We aren't saying when it will be available. It will not be with the release of XNA GS 2.0.

Fig:

so while the folks here may see this as ground already covered there are at last a few folks (perhaps many) who are as confused as I am about where MSFT is going with this thing.

I invite you to wait and see. You do not need to make any investment until we offer something that you feel is worth it. In fact, I would ask that you do not make any investment based on speculation or unannounced products or services. It takes no effort at all to dismiss our current offering and wait.

In the meantime, XNA GSE 1.0 provides a fun and approachable way to learn about game programming.

Thank you for taking time to explain, I know there are legal issues.

I hope the legal issues are worked out as soon as possible. it seems like the basic tech is in place, the tools are ready ( or ready enough) and the final barriers are in the legal process and the staffing for this.

what I would like to see:

I pay a moderate fee (like the 99 yearly creators club) and get the following options:

XNA Live Arcade: like the current Live Arcade but targeted at XNA , goes thru a review process to be published.

XNA Direct Publish: allows for content that does not merit Live Arcade but does pass some kind of review.

have each title "signed" with a digital signature that is associated with the game creator club program.

so that if for example I made a game that had inapropreate content MSFT could trace it back to me and do what was needed.

have needed disclamers on XNA based games that Microsoft did not create and does not own the works of the author.

I was developing with .net from day one, I saw the potential of .net from the first betas.

I see XNA as the .Net for the XBOX and as having a huge possible positive impact when the final issues are overcome.

so with that in my sights I am rather eager to get on with it.

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Stephen Styrchak — Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:24:14 GMT

Fig:

the last bit is exactly right, I am totaly lost that a whole product was built that can not really go very far on the xbox side of things. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that the limitations of the GS product were "temporary" and that a later update (GS 2.0 that works with Visual Studio Pro) would open the door.

Yes, they are temporary. No, GS 2.0 will not yet remove those limitations. In this case, the temporary limitation happens to be for more than one year. That doesn't mean it is never going to change.

Fig:

for example: if I want to build some free games in my spare time to give out for the xbox and using xna in some form will that ever be possible? not a sales deal, just a giveaway.

Yes, if you want to share the game with people who have XNA GSE 1.0 installed, and have an active Creators Club subscription. Otherwise, no.

Fig:

is that "On the radar"?

Yes. We've been working on it since before XNA GSE 1.0 was released. The obstacles are mostly not technical, and the amount of time it will take to resolve all the issues and deliver a working solution to the public has never been well-defined. Any "simple" method of sharing that you might think we've overlooked is either wrought with risk of enormous legal liability, or places a huge maintenance tax in both time and money upon Microsoft. Having these things is a non-starter for us. Avoiding these things takes lawyers and business people. They don't give estimates the same way engineers do.

Fig:

and I think that others are interesting in this also.... for example on this post: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=357044

Yes, other people are asking similar questions, and our answer is always the same. For now, you cannot play XNA GSE-created games on the Xbox 360 without a Creators Club subscription. We are working on something that will change that. We aren't saying when it will be available. It will not be with the release of XNA GS 2.0.

Fig:

so while the folks here may see this as ground already covered there are at last a few folks (perhaps many) who are as confused as I am about where MSFT is going with this thing.

I invite you to wait and see. You do not need to make any investment until we offer something that you feel is worth it. In fact, I would ask that you do not make any investment based on speculation or unannounced products or services. It takes no effort at all to dismiss our current offering and wait.

In the meantime, XNA GSE 1.0 provides a fun and approachable way to learn about game programming.

Re: XNA 2.0, Visual Studio 2005 and other languages...

Fig — Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:23:08 GMT

Nobody is saying you're asking for too much. We're saying that today, we don't have a product with the features and capabilities that you are asking about. We've said that we are working on creating a new product with these features and capabilities, but we aren't ready to disclose a timeline for availability of said new product.

*If* you paid for anything with the impression that you could use XNA GSE 1.0 for any sort of business related to Xbox 360 games, then you misunderstood what the product was for, and we are trying to help you understand that it was never intended for such a purpose. We intend to create and release such a product, but XNA GSE 1.0 isn't it.

I understand that you are disappointed that we don't have a product today that meets your needs. You are obviously frustrated that it isn't available. Your feedback is appreciated, and we will take it into consideration as we continue to work on new products and services.

the last bit is exactly right, I am totaly lost that a whole product was built that can not really go very far on the xbox side of things. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that the limitations of the GS product were "temporary" and that a later update (GS 2.0 that works with Visual Studio Pro) would open the door.

from my POV this current situation should be very very short term. IMHO at least 75% of the point of having the GS product and the creators club that has to paid for is to target the xbox as a platform for a new crop of games for the xbox.

that only works if the games can be re-distributed to non-developers.

I guess it's as if I was told that say C# express reqired me to give the source code away and was not for developing apps to sell... if that were the case then it would be of no use unless if was for students only.

I totaly 100% agree that there are issues with keeping the standards up, dealing with legal issues as mentioned (content of a demeaning / racial orm other bad stuff)

but I do not want to wait forever to hear what the plan is.

I do not think I was "Demanding" an immidiate answer, but yes I am "asking" what the plan is, so that I can make my own plans.

for example: if I want to build some free games in my spare time to give out for the xbox and using xna in some form will that ever be possible? not a sales deal, just a giveaway.

is that "On the radar"?

and I think that others are interesting in this also.... for example on this post: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=357044

one C9 member asks:

For the next release, I hope they're going to get rid of the Creator's Club membership requirements. I understand why it's there, of course, but I'd still like to be able to share stuff to non-devs, too.

Also, I was reading about the networking possibilities, and requiring people to get both a CC membership and an XBox Live Gold membership is a bit much.

so while the folks here may see this as ground already covered there are at last a few folks (perhaps many) who are as confused as I am about where MSFT is going with this thing.

and I do not want to walk off a cliff -- I like to see where the road is leading.