Game Publishing/Business

Re: Fonts and bitmap images

Damaniel — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:23:24 GMT

CDarklock:

I went to larabiefonts.com (which I was happy to find is still there), clicked around, downloaded a few of his newer fonts from myfonts.com, and pulled a license file from the newer fonts. It was the same license. So I headed back to his site and pulled the help file, to see if he covered font embedding - and he did (all emphasis mine):

Q: I want to use Larabie Fonts in my software application. What should I do?

A: Determine whether you intend to embed or include the font(s) in your software.

Embedded fonts: the end user only view the fonts on-screen or print text from the screen.

If the embedded fonts are selectable (part of a selection of fonts) you must include the original font name and trademark in your software credits or documentation and on your website, if possible. Never alter the name of our fonts without our permission.

Embedded fonts that are not user selectable don’t need to include the font name or trademark but we would appreciate inclusion of our URL in the software credits or documentation and or on your website, if possible. Never alter the name of our fonts without our permission.

Embedding Larabie Fonts in any format is free of charge and you don’t need our permission for embedding them in your software.

Just a warning -- it looks like the license for these fonts has changed. The new answer to that question reads:

Q: I want to use Larabie Fonts in my software application. What should I do?

A: A. If you want to distribute Larabie fonts with applications, whether web-based, or shipping as standalone products for PCs, Macs, game consoles or other devices, you need an extended use license. Please contact Ascender Corporation. They take care of Larabie Fonts licensing, including OEM and customized versions.

I'm still grappling with how to handle the font issue -- I don't really like any of the free-to-use XNA fonts, and I'm still reeling from the sticker shock of the $2500 quote I got for embedding a font from another foundry. I like some of the Larabie font choices, so I'll probably contact Ascender to find out more about their licensing options.

Re: Fonts and bitmap images

Beringela — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:27:34 GMT

In a similar vein to the above, I noticed that Manfred Klein is not mentioned on the forums either. He seems quite the prolific font designer too:

See: http://manfred-klein.ina-mar.com/
Archive: http://moorstation.org/typoasis/designers/klein/index.htm

The only license reference I could find is below, which seems pretty generous:

"Simple Terms of Use
Manfred’s fonts are free for private and charity use. They are even free for commercial use – but if there’s any profit, pls make a donation to organizations like Doctors Without Borders. These fonts can NOT be included in any compilation CDs, disks or products, either commercial or shareware unless prior permission granted."

Re: Fonts and bitmap images

CDarklock — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:48:28 GMT

Apologies for resurrecting this old discussion, but it seemed like the best place to put this.

I was thinking about this whole font licensing thing, and it occurred to me that I remembered someone who was working at a game company and made free fonts: Ray Larabie. So I searched the forum, and nobody has mentioned him, which is shocking - he's a Microsoft vendor from way back. Surely someone from the team remembers him?

I've used Larabie fonts for years, although not recently. They're free for personal and commercial use, so it's a no-brainer when you're building graphics or a logo. However, I wasn't sure about embedding; I crawled through my archive CDs, and found a Larabie font collection from about 1998 - each archive with a license file in it that appeared to allow embedding. But since I wasn't 100% certain, and the file was ten years old... I went to larabiefonts.com (which I was happy to find is still there), clicked around, downloaded a few of his newer fonts from myfonts.com, and pulled a license file from the newer fonts. It was the same license. So I headed back to his site and pulled the help file, to see if he covered font embedding - and he did (all emphasis mine):

Q: I want to use Larabie Fonts in my software application. What should I do?

A: Determine whether you intend to embed or include the font(s) in your software.

Embedded fonts: the end user only view the fonts on-screen or print text from the screen.

If the embedded fonts are selectable (part of a selection of fonts) you must include the original font name and trademark in your software credits or documentation and on your website, if possible. Never alter the name of our fonts without our permission.

Embedded fonts that are not user selectable don’t need to include the font name or trademark but we would appreciate inclusion of our URL in the software credits or documentation and or on your website, if possible. Never alter the name of our fonts without our permission.

Embedding Larabie Fonts in any format is free of charge and you don’t need our permission for embedding them in your software.

Ray Larabie has 276 fonts available on myfonts.com, all of which can clearly be used in SpriteFont files for XNA games according to this plain-English license. Be aware that Ray Larabie also offers another 184 fonts at myfonts.com through his type foundry Typodermic, which are not free, and cannot be embedded without a separate license negotiated and purchased through Ascender Corporation which handles all his licensing.

So if you're sitting around wishing you had better fonts to use in your game, you've now got over 250 available to choose from, and the available styles cover pretty much any kind of game you're building.

Re: Fonts and bitmap images

Bjoern Graf — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:30:47 GMT

Shawn Hargreaves:
[...] the safest option is to use one that comes with a clearly permissive license, such as the font pack in the utilities section of this site.

Which are rather limited when it comes to languages with letters outside the ASCII range. There are quite a few useable OpenSource fonts out there which cover pretty much of Unicode.

Re: Fonts and bitmap images

Shawn Hargreaves — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:23:43 GMT

I would guess this depends entirely on the font. This is very much a grey area (most font licenses weren't written with things like console games in mind!) but I certainly wouldn't assume that all fonts are automatically fair game. If you don't have your own lawyer to check over each individual license agreement, the safest option is to use one that comes with a clearly permissive license, such as the font pack in the utilities section of this site.

Re: Fonts and bitmap images

jwatte — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:50:34 GMT

I can't easily create a new document from a font I got from a printed document, but it's a snap with a bitmap image of the font.

I can cut and paste the printed characters into a ransom note. Or I can scan it and use the characters -- which is identical to what we're doing with sprite fonts. The crucial difference is that neither sprite fonts, nor ransom notes, can be re-scaled. At least, that's the copyright that applied to fonts (without any license agreement involvement, btw) back when I was in the biz.

Is anyone aware of any font EULA that has been tested in court? Else it might be the copyright that holds, and that may allow spritefonts (but, of course, check with your own lawyer for your own situation).

Re: Fonts and bitmap images

David Hunt — Thu, 08 May 2008 11:49:33 GMT

TrueType font != Microsoft font. Microsoft licenses fonts for distribution with Windows, Office, etc. But that's beside the point.

The difference between distributing a printed document and a font in bitmap form is usage. I can't easily create a new document from a font I got from a printed document, but it's a snap with a bitmap image of the font. The folks who make the fonts don't want people turning the fonts into bitmaps and distributing them to people to use any more than they want people distributing the .ttf files for that purpose.

Re: Fonts and bitmap images

The ZMan — Thu, 08 May 2008 03:02:23 GMT

I think MS legal are just covering their ass and telling you to ensure the license is followed. If you find a license that says that its OK to distribute the whole font as a bitmap then you are good.

Fonts and bitmap images

jwatte — Thu, 08 May 2008 02:49:26 GMT

The description of SpriteFont in the documentation claims that many TrueType fonts may not be re-distributed, even in bitmap form.

Back when I did desktop publishing (late '80s, early '90s) the rule in general was that bitmap images created with fonts were OK, but the outlines were not. Specifically, if I type something in PhotoShop and then print the image, that's OK for distribution (say, putting on the web). Similarly, if I print a document using a given font, I can then distribute that document to people who did not purchase the outline font.

So, why does Microsoft take a different stance in the XNA documentation? Are you seriously suggesting that I can't distribute a paper document printed with a Microsoft font?