General

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Jim Perry — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:56:36 GMT

Roonda:
tie those Guide message box calls to the player who presses start initially.

That's that way to go IMO.

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Roonda — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:37:06 GMT

Roonda:
when I need to call Guide.BeginMessageBox (eg for when the storage selector is cancelled), I give it the PlayerIndex that last registered input.

Aaargh. I think I'm going to have to change this. When I pop up the storage device selector automatically at the start, it works for all players. Then, if I disconnect the device, I show a Guide message box with the last active PlayerIndex... unfortunately if you pull the MU before using any controllers, it has no way of knowing which one was used during the storage selector :(

The only way around this I can think of is to write my own message box that works for all controllers, or give up and tie those Guide message box calls to the player who presses start initially.

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Roonda — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:50:12 GMT

Spyn Doctor:
Raining Talent LLC:
My game is an online only game, meaning a signed in player with gold is required to play. Should I allow or not allow a non-signed in gamer to use a signed in gamers profile to allow him to play from another controller?

As Pino said, the majority here says no, you should not allow this. For everything a player does, you should use the PlayerIndex of the controller that the player is using, never the PlayerIndex of another controller.

That's interesting. It made me think of Jon Watte's onlines scoreboard, which is the only online component of my game. It searches for the first signed in gamer with privileges for AllowOnlineSessions. It makes sense - It Just Works - and it's cool. I'd hate to see that discouraged or made less seamless just because it might be using the online privileges of a Gamer who's not currently playing. After all, if somebody doesn't want their Gamer profile to be connecting to LIVE, they should really sign it out.

[EDIT] I just noticed you said "For everything a player does", so I guess that means stuff that happens under the hood is fine then?[ENDEDIT]

On an entirely different note, I have a question about "Caveat 5: Using Guide.BeginShowMessageBox before PlayerIndex is known.". I've tried to handle all controllers and NOT require the user to "Press Start to Play". Instead in the menu system I poll all controllers and when I need to call Guide.BeginMessageBox (eg for when the storage selector is cancelled), I give it the PlayerIndex that last registered input. Therefore when I show the message box when multiple controllers are being used, It could be any of the controllers that will have control, but at least it should be one that is in somebody's hands. I just wanted peoples opinions on whether this is acceptable and not a failable issue?

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Raining Talent LLC — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:42:13 GMT

I thought since this was more of logical way of dealing with the evil checklist rather then a technical issue I posted here. I will post this on the proper forums then, I apologize.

I would assume it would be possible, but unless I can be given a logical and workable solution from a member who has actually done XNA networking, it is of no help. Hopefully I can get a solution on the proper forum. Thanks.

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

PinoEire — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 21:30:55 GMT

Raining Talent LLC:
If you have a gold profile signed in and also a silver profile logged in and try to find or join a network session get, you receive an error. Meaning I have to force players silver or offline to log out in order to continue. I have changed the code a million times to comply with these checklist items, but it seems contradictory. If literally cannot have a logged in profile that is silver or offline, how can I comply with keeping all players signed in? On top of that I was advised in my playtest thread I should ignore the input of other players and always allow 4 local players to prevent force signing out, but that is simply not possible then.

You cannot designate a player index for who is playing, and it will always start the session with the first signed in player, etc.

I know people have had network games passed, obviously, so can someone shed some light on this?

This is not the right thread for technical issues. At any rate ALL the LIVE games I've tested (and passed) were able to establish the link properly, and I test all the time in the same condition, first run I try to play from a non signed in profile; second run I log a local profile as well; third run I use the Gold controller to play having a local profile on the other controller. It works all the time properly.

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Raining Talent LLC — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:42:16 GMT

If you have a gold profile signed in and also a silver profile logged in and try to find or join a network session get, you receive an error. Meaning I have to force players silver or offline to log out in order to continue. I have changed the code a million times to comply with these checklist items, but it seems contradictory. If literally cannot have a logged in profile that is silver or offline, how can I comply with keeping all players signed in? On top of that I was advised in my playtest thread I should ignore the input of other players and always allow 4 local players to prevent force signing out, but that is simply not possible then.

You cannot designate a player index for who is playing, and it will always start the session with the first signed in player, etc.

I know people have had network games passed, obviously, so can someone shed some light on this?

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

George Clingerman — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:36:03 GMT

It's intentional and not a bug.

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

LemonBallGames — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:23:38 GMT

Not sure if this is the correct place to share my findings today...

I have today discovered that to play a purchased XBox Live Indie Game, there always has to be at least one controller signed in to XBox Live.

I didn't know this previously, and this isn't clearly indicated in the "Usage Restrictions" available prior to purchase on the market place.

The "Usage Restrictions" stated that anyone can play the game on the XBox that it was originally downloaded to, but if transferred to an MU then the purchaser must sign into XBox Live.

I have also found (by checking one of my prior purchases) that XBox Live Arcade Games can be played without a connection to XBox Live.

Is this difference between XBLIG & XBLA a bug, or an intentional difference?

[ My main concern here is with the potential loss of customers who only have intermittent XBox Live Access. ]

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

PinoEire — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:29:24 GMT

Raining Talent LLC:
Due to this can you force a player to sign out (displaying a msg to do so) to avoid them from being part of the network session if there are more than one profiles logged in when attempt to join a game?

If you are NOT allowed to force a player to sign out, as developers what other steps have you taken to keep a multiplayer network game working, especially if you limited the local network players option to 1.

No, you can't. I'm going to post the proper algorithm answering you in the playtest thread ;)

Cheers,
Pino

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Raining Talent LLC — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:49:50 GMT

Due to this can you force a player to sign out (displaying a msg to do so) to avoid them from being part of the network session if there are more than one profiles logged in when attempt to join a game?

If you are NOT allowed to force a player to sign out, as developers what other steps have you taken to keep a multiplayer network game working, especially if you limited the local network players option to 1.

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Spyn Doctor — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:39:47 GMT

Raining Talent LLC:
My game is an online only game, meaning a signed in player with gold is required to play. Should I allow or not allow a non-signed in gamer to use a signed in gamers profile to allow him to play from another controller?

As Pino said, the majority here says no, you should not allow this. For everything a player does, you should use the PlayerIndex of the controller that the player is using, never the PlayerIndex of another controller.

Raining Talent LLC:
If i do not do this, I will end up requiring a player to either sign in or use the other controller. I don't want to fail for doing it for both ways from different reviewers

If a reviewer fails you because you require a sign-in, then this is an invalid fail. Point that reviewer to the "not so evil list of things we don't fail for" - it includes the item that requiring a sing-in is not a failable issue. Especially not for online games, were a sign-in is mandatory anyway.

Raining Talent LLC:
so I would like to see this officially updated if this has changed.

See the newly created caveat #6 on the evil list.

Doc

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Steve Roe — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:26:32 GMT

PinoEire:
Steve,

the question is about the issue discusses here 2 pages back: should be allowed to "borrow" a Gold account from controller #2 to use it to allow the unsigned player on controller #3 to go LIVE mimicking the user on controller #2? The matter has been discussed 2 or 3 pages back in this thread and the vast majority see this as a straight fail (so do I). Have a look back to the discussion ;)

Cheers,
Pino

Ah - my mistake - thought the post referred to a player signing in manually, not to an automatic sign-in to an account active on another controller.

I agree, automatically grabbing another controller's signed in account (and signing out that controller) is a fail.

Disregard my previous post ...

[EDIT] where "automatically" means without a manual sign-out from the other controller and a manual sign-in on the new controller.

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

PinoEire — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:18:12 GMT

Steve,

the question is about the issue discusses here 2 pages back: should be allowed to "borrow" a Gold account from controller #2 to use it to allow the unsigned player on controller #3 to go LIVE mimicking the user on controller #2? The matter has been discussed 2 or 3 pages back in this thread and the vast majority see this as a straight fail (so do I). Have a look back to the discussion ;)

Cheers,
Pino

Re: Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Steve Roe — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:07:20 GMT

Raining Talent LLC:
If i do not do this, I will end up requiring a player to either sign in or use the other controller

Requiring a player to sign in is to be avoided in general, but is not grounds for a fail.

See the No So Evil Checklist.

If your game has valid reasons for requiring sign-ins, it is ok.

Evil checklist and signed in gamers

Raining Talent LLC — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:12:25 GMT

I know this has been discussed on another thread, but I had receiving two conflicting answers regarding this on a review for my game and I would like to post this to get a final answer, and perhaps get the evil checklist updated.

My game is an online only game, meaning a signed in player with gold is required to play. Should I allow or not allow a non-signed in gamer to use a signed in gamers profile to allow him to play from another controller? If i do not do this, I will end up requiring a player to either sign in or use the other controller. I don't want to fail for doing it for both ways from different reviewers, so I would like to see this officially updated if this has changed.