General

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Abel Garcia Plaza — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:05:11 GMT

Novaleaf Software:
perhaps it was a mistake to put up a pc demo, when it's not at final quality? or at least calling it a "demo" instead of "technical demo"... i'm not sure.. what do you guys think?

Yeah, you need to be careful with that. At least you should warn the typical "this is a demo, and doesn't represent the final quality of the game".

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Novaleaf Software — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:17:23 GMT

RainbowDespair:
Hm...I think pricing it at 800 MSP is a big mistake. At that price, you're directly competing against the fantastic lineup of XLBA shmups already out there (Geometry Wars 2, Galaga Legions, Ikaruga, Omega Five, and more) and though Biology Battle seemed like a fun game from the little I played of the PC demo, it just doesn't have the level of polish that the best XBLA shmups have. However at 400 MSP, I think it could really clean up.

Personally, I think the key to pricing games effectively is to determine how much value most people place on your game and then price it at a somewhat lower price. The point being that you get people to think that they're getting a great deal by buying your game.

Oh well, I might get Biology Battle anyways. I've got a Pokemon gotta-catch-em-all attitude towards quality shmups.

Well if you are judging the price based on the PC demo, then try the xbox version now, and I think you will feel different about the value, in a good way :)

The retail version is incredibly improved upon from the old pc demo. Today i'm actually taking down the PC demo because I dont want people to get confused and think that's the same quality they will get in the full version.

perhaps it was a mistake to put up a pc demo, when it's not at final quality? or at least calling it a "demo" instead of "technical demo"... i'm not sure.. what do you guys think?

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

RainbowDespair — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 06:04:30 GMT

Hm...I think pricing it at 800 MSP is a big mistake. At that price, you're directly competing against the fantastic lineup of XLBA shmups already out there (Geometry Wars 2, Galaga Legions, Ikaruga, Omega Five, and more) and though Biology Battle seemed like a fun game from the little I played of the PC demo, it just doesn't have the level of polish that the best XBLA shmups have. However at 400 MSP, I think it could really clean up.

Personally, I think the key to pricing games effectively is to determine how much value most people place on your game and then price it at a somewhat lower price. The point being that you get people to think that they're getting a great deal by buying your game.

Oh well, I might get Biology Battle anyways. I've got a Pokemon gotta-catch-em-all attitude towards quality shmups.

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Silvermax — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:39:06 GMT

...and the thing is that there is a lot of games in XBLA that are 800 mp and they are absolutely crap!

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Kryptek — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:12:03 GMT

Epic game.....worth 800 easy

great job. IMHO the 100k was well spent :)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

claudy27 — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:43:17 GMT

Harald Maassen:
Novaleaf Software:
Oh, i forgot to mention, but the price is 800 points. So far I only see one other game at that price, that being Colloseum.

If any XBLCG game is worth 800 points it's this one.

I would say it is worthy of the honor of an 800 points price tag, especially since it is such a high quality.

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Harald Maassen — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:13:25 GMT

Novaleaf Software:
Yes :)

Too bad you didnt get into the peer review, however I"m going to be submitting an update later today, so you'll have another chance.

Oh, i forgot to mention, but the price is 800 points. So far I only see one other game at that price, that being Colloseum.

If any XBLCG game is worth 800 points it's this one.

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Novaleaf Software — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:10:28 GMT

Yes :)

Too bad you didnt get into the peer review, however I"m going to be submitting an update later today, so you'll have another chance.

Oh, i forgot to mention, but the price is 800 points. So far I only see one other game at that price, that being Colloseum.

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Abel Garcia Plaza — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:31:51 GMT

Novaleaf Software:
I know being the author of Biology Battle I'm a bit biased toward's it's quality, but I suppose in only a few days we'll all know :)

This game looked very well for me in previous videos. Can't wait to see it finished ;-)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Novaleaf Software — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:42:38 GMT

I've been pretty quiet on these forums for the last few weeks, because I've been busting my butt getting Biology Battle perfect :)

It's done now. Thank you all for all the help and feedback regarding pricing, and marketing advice.

Now that the game is technically finished (assuming it passes Peer Review), I'll be focusing all my time on marketing. I'll start by trying to send version to editors of magazines to review, and also put up some in-game videos over the next few days.

After launch, I'm going to try doing a "real" marketing campaign at some of the bigger game sites, but not yet. I want to wait to see if it makes any impact on sales doing so. (This is as much of a "get your feet wet" experiment as it is a money making process)

I know being the author of Biology Battle I'm a bit biased toward's it's quality, but I suppose in only a few days we'll all know :)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Novaleaf Software — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:08:55 GMT

Perhaps your disapointment indicates what is yet another reason that makes xbox development so attractive: a homoginized experience with one hardware layout, and one controller layout (gamepads).

I'm sorry you didnt have a controller handy, and the "how to play" screen doesnt actually skip when it's done, you have to press a button to continue.   from your "i didnt get a chance to read it", it sounds like you didnt have the desire to read it, not that it didnt give you the time.     That said, sure we can make that loading a bit clearer i'm sure...   but if you are on a laptop with no mouse, that means yet another controller profile that has to be dealt with, and made "fun"...

basicallly that's part of the reason why the PC version wont be released for 6 months.

And since most of your complaints are surrounding the experience on a laptop, unfortunatly there's not much I can take from your experience...      except that some people who dislike the genre will probably dislike this game too...

and that when we do release the real pc version, we should give the user options for other input profiles.

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Chris Gomez — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:48:12 GMT

I downloaded the demo from your website. Here are my notes. They are probably not going to be very helpful.

I am sitting with my laptop computer, reading about your work and how hard you folks have been going at it to create a game in time for launch.

Okay, so I download the demo installer. It installs cleanly with no thinking whatsoever on my part. Nice job.

I start the game up. First, I have a little trouble looking for keyboard controls. I look in help, and can't find them. I note there is a setting to turn graphics quality on high. So I set it to high.

I start a game. The first problem is that at the top it says "Demo expires in 57 days". Well, at least I think it says 57. It might say 37. That's a problem with the font if I can't tell what it says, even though it is trying to be futuristic. The next thought that goes through my mind is: "Great, how is it deciding that my demo is up? What crap is not going to cleanly uninstall when I take the demo off my system?" That's a sour taste and I haven't even started.

Perhaps the loading screen is necessary so you can get you assets loaded, but I had no idea what it was about. It was confusing and didn't do much to describe what was being loaded or what kind of character I was playing. I'm still not 100% sure.

A splash screen appears showing controls. Whoa! I have to have my mouse to aim? Uh oh. Not going to go well on my laptop. There isn't enough time for me to remember all the keys. All I get is WASD and... then the mouse. The spacebar and shift do something. Uh oh. Okay well I'll just figure it out.

The game starts. I start moving around. I'm not sure who the bad guys are so I assume everyone. I trying to aim with my laptop's touchpad but it doesn't do anything. I hit spacebar and the lightning effect takes some guys out. Then I remember the other key mentioned was shift. I start mashing it and, sure enough, laser bolts come out of my ship pointing east, and always pointing east.

Then I get booted back to the desktop. Windows wants to know if I am activating StickyKeys. Um... no, I was just playing a game that made the mistake of using Shift for a button to mash. Or maybe it is something that can be temporarily disabled in code. I shrug and go back to the game.

I am now firing southeast. Some bad guys come to the ship and destroy it. I get taunted when I am destroyed with phrases that seem like internet memes or lolcats. I come back to live and move around, picking up a few items. It says my lightning is available, or maybe it said upgraded. Eventually I get hit again since I am only shooting southeast, and the game ends.

I exit, and a massive screen tries to tell me all the game's features. There is so much crammed on it, I decide to read none of it. I exit and uninstall the demo.

On the positive side, your game looks fantastic in play mode. It rivals geometry wars. It is smooth and pretty. I couldn't get the sound working, but that may have been my fault, so I can't comment on that. I could not play the game, so I can't comment on gameplay. In the end, I would not fire up my Xbox and hunt for your game to play.

I know I was at a major disadvantage by not playing it on the Xbox, but unfortunately sometimes when you offer a demo on PC in hopes of getting someone to move to Xbox, it isn't enough of a point to say: "Well, you'd have liked this much better on the Xbox." Maybe I shouldn't have been offered the demo.

I sincerely hope you sell a billion copies of your game. I really do. For the record, I didn't buy Geometry Wars, either. I played the demo and found it tedious. For some reason I spent hours playing Asteroids, but I found Geometry Wars too busy to feel like I was having an impact on the game. It didn't feel like my skill mattered, just that time would "run out" when the game decided to throw too much at me. I am sure that is incorrect and today's gamers are just so much more talented that there is no place for the simple starter levels that Asteroids offered, so you could play for five or ten minutes (or for me in one case, I recall playing hours and hours) and feel like you were "beating" an unwinnable game.

Take anything you want from the review. Discard it all if you want. I just find that you might appreciate the visceral responses I recorded on my notes as things were happening on screen. Those gut reactions might change sales, so I hope they help you sell a ton. I think you should charge 400 points, myself.

To give you another comparison on pricing. I found myself disappointed in Braid at 1200. I loved the game, but when I beat it in 3 hours I was sorely disappointed that it wasn't 800 points.

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Novaleaf Software — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 08:29:41 GMT

jwatte:

I don't want to just point and shoot as each target presents itself.

After five minutes, BB doesn't allow you to lazily point and shoot all the time. You have to actually keep up, and even plan a little bit which way you're going.

That's true, but I'm going to change the "Online Challenge (Hard)" mode, so that it start out fast and furious (with a disclaimer that beginners should play the Local mode).

That's what i meant when i was saying I like it when people rant, that told me that the core gamers would likely find the game rather boring in the beginning, and wouldnt play it long enough to get to the challenging parts...

I think the people who want to compete for topscore are going to be the competitive core gamers, so I better make that mode especially well suited to them....

If we can get the remaining features into the game, we'll probably go for the 800 points... just based on what I see being developed at the 400 point level, and compared to msft's desire to put xbla games at 1200 points now....

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

jwatte — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 00:41:23 GMT

I don't want to just point and shoot as each target presents itself.

After five minutes, BB doesn't allow you to lazily point and shoot all the time. You have to actually keep up, and even plan a little bit which way you're going.

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Gordo Jones — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 23:48:51 GMT

Novaleaf Software:
Btw, thanks for the "brutal honesty" about thinking the gameplay sucks. I'm able to read into the rant, and pick out the key issues you are raising :) I wish more people told me it sucks and rant about why a bit :D

No, Biology Wars certainly does not suck at all. It is a good game on the cusp of perhaps being very good.
But to compete against the recently released GeoWars2, which is outstanding, BB will have to quicken the pace.
I want to feel as if I am in a desperate battle for survival. I don't want to just point and shoot as each target presents itself.
I think accessibility is the most important game play feature there is today.
It has to be easy enough for beginners but unique and challenging for hardcore players.

Please realize as gamers and not developers, we don't want more features, we want simple, fast, addictive gameplay.
The biggest titles last year all used twitch reflexes: COD4, Halo3, Pac-Man Championship, Galaga Legions, GeoWars2.

Just pretend I'm an idiot here with the only question from my first post.
Is there any reason why I can't move as fast the whole time instead of having to use the speed boost button?

General

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is *THIS* game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)

Re: So, how much is THIS game worth? (Biology Battle)