XNA Creators Club Online
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many many questions...

Last post 08-22-2008 10:43 PM by Nick Gravelyn. 5 replies.
  • 08-21-2008 2:32 AM

    many many questions...

    heyya, me and my friend have a whole load of questions. i am slowly searching through the forums for answers in other threads =]

        Programming with XNA on Xbox 360
        > what are the size limitations for savedata? as presumably we're not allowed to "play" with the Xbox's HDD, for security purposes.
        > for the purposes of sequels or games that use external data (anyone ever play monster rancher) can my game access other games savedata, or can game A write savedata for game B?

        > for pc there are programs to test where a program is laggy. are there similar utils for the xbox?

        > CG would be impractical if the game size is limited to 50 -150meg (26 mins of HD video = 150 mb ish). however could there be mechanisms to say stream the video content. or download additional resources as they are required ingame?
        > presumably general (£50) xbox games dont use XNA. what do they use?

        > how would game updates work? for example. savedata may need to be converted to a new format, can we run code as our game is being updated?

        about Creators club
        > with no ESRB rating will all players have to be 18 or over to DL?
       
        > if i create an uber game, or a brand new game style. would similar games be disqualified for plagerism?

        > whats the point for content rating and the parental control on xbox if games that have severe nudity or violence or depict illegal actions ( drugs prostitution etc presumably ) are disalowed? also it shows no room for how it was depicted, i.e. in a crime/investigation game such actions are unnavoidable yet depicted in a negative light as opposed to say... grand theft auto. why should we follow rules disreguarded by profesional game creators... not that i have anything against GTA =p

        > "We will not payout creators in points. All points generated by games will be converted to U.S. Dollars and then converted to the relevant currency." being not of US nationality, would there be further deductions for monitary conversion costs? why not convert MS points directly into GBP at the same rate that they are charged at?   
        > as community games are taxable. how many 'lots' of tax would i pay, as a full time student i dont pay tax. how is this handled?

        > with apparently 60+ titles available, all costing a minimum of 200 points. add to that the games generated by imagine cup and the other XNA competitions. it will be difficult to seporate good from bad games. with no free games... what about demos?

        > what if the peer review system is wrong. (more likely with no longer valid copyright, or copyrights only applicable to certain countries/areas) is there a higher authority you can take it to, or any oppertunity to state the case for a game which you believe has been incorectly reviewed.

        > does microsoft "own" the games i create? or am i free to distribute it freely elsewhere as well?

    thanks for putting up with me =]

    Dead.Rabit

  • 08-21-2008 2:55 AM In reply to

    Re: many many questions...

    > for the purposes of sequels or games that use external data (anyone ever play monster rancher) can my game access other games savedata, or can game A write savedata for game B?

    No, games cannot access another games save location. There's a thread on here somewhere discussing this with some ideas of how you could still do episodic content using passwords t that unlock and setup your characters, etc in the next game. There's also a chance this could change in the future, but for now, this is not possible with XBox Live Community Games. 

    > for pc there are programs to test where a program is laggy. are there similar utils for the xbox?

    There are, but they aren't available to the general public. You have to have an XBox 360 dev kit. 

     > CG would be impractical if the game size is limited to 50 -150meg (26 mins of HD video = 150 mb ish). however could there be mechanisms to say stream the video content. or download additional resources as they are required ingame?

    No, this is not possible with XBox Live Community Games.  

     > presumably general (£50) xbox games dont use XNA. what do they use?

    They're programmed against the XBox SDK using C++ generally, but there are a few "general" games that have used the XNA framework with the "extra bits" that you get when you have an XBox Live Arcade contract with Microsoft.

    > how would game updates work? for example. savedata may need to be converted to a new format, can we run code as our game is being updated?

    Game updates currently aren't possible with XBox Live Community Games but it's possible that might change before it's officially released. There's been no word if there will be a solution for this or not.

    > with no ESRB rating will all players have to be 18 or over to DL?

    To download XBox Live Community Games, parental controls must be turned off because the content is unrated. 

       
    > if i create an uber game, or a brand new game style. would similar games be disqualified for plagerism?

    Gameplay can't be patented so no. If you create an uber style game, the entire industry will copy you and you can just feel proud for having started a new trend. Lots of examples in the industry of this. 

    > whats the point for content rating and the parental control on xbox if games that have severe nudity or violence or depict illegal actions ( drugs prostitution etc presumably ) are disalowed? also it shows no room for how it was depicted, i.e. in a crime/investigation game such actions are unnavoidable yet depicted in a negative light as opposed to say... grand theft auto. why should we follow rules disreguarded by profesional game creators... not that i have anything against GTA =p

    There are forms of partial nudity etc. that are allowed. Read the rules for the specifics on what is and isn't allowed. But because of what is allowed, that's the point of the content rating. 

     > "We will not payout creators in points. All points generated by games will be converted to U.S. Dollars and then converted to the relevant currency." being not of US nationality, would there be further deductions for monitary conversion costs? why not convert MS points directly into GBP at the same rate that they are charged at?   

     There's a whole thread on this somewhere...maybe even a FAQ.

     > as community games are taxable. how many 'lots' of tax would i pay, as a full time student i dont pay tax. how is this handled?

    Not the kind of question that can be answered (at least in any way you can trust) on a forum. Ask your local accountants and tax officials for how that should be handled.

     > with apparently 60+ titles available, all costing a minimum of 200 points. add to that the games generated by imagine cup and the other XNA competitions. it will be difficult to seporate good from bad games. with no free games... what about demos?

    All games will be required to have a demo version of the game. There is still talk of how the good from the bad will be separated. Nothing official has been announced but it's speculated that an online search similar to how XBox Live Arcade is being handled will be created for XBox Live Community Games.

     > what if the peer review system is wrong. (more likely with no longer valid copyright, or copyrights only applicable to certain countries/areas) is there a higher authority you can take it to, or any oppertunity to state the case for a game which you believe has been incorectly reviewed.

    Re-submitting would be your first option. Then if the game is rejected again unfairly there is contact information all over the site that can be sent to Microsoft. A post in the forums would also get noticed and the issue could be escalated that way. I haven't seen any official word on how to handle a scenario like that, but those would be the logical steps.

     > does microsoft "own" the games i create? or am i free to distribute it freely elsewhere as well?

    Yes, you can distribute them elsewhere. Microsoft does not own them in any way.

    Lastly, please if you have all these questions again, don't do a large one shot all the questions post like this. It's way to hard to answer. I'd rather you ask them one at a time. With all this content in one post it gets lost and like I said makes answering it a huge headache.

    Also, note that I do NOT work for Microsoft so my answers could be incorrect. I'm just going off of what I've heard and observed here on the forums so there may be others that will chime in to correct me.

  • 08-21-2008 4:56 AM In reply to

    Re: many many questions...

    DeadRabit:
    CG would be impractical if the game size is limited to 50 -150meg (26 mins of HD video = 150 mb ish).
    How so? Almost every single XBLA game falls under 150MB. There are one or two that go beyond that and then only slightly. Obviously XBLCG is not a distribution platform for HD video, so it's not really worth the comparison.

    if i create an uber game, or a brand new game style. would similar games be disqualified for plagerism?
    Only if you patent your gameplay mechanics. To respond to this and George's quote here:
    George Clingerman:
    Gameplay can't be patented so no.
    , there are a few patents of gameplay mechanics. They are rare, but they have been done. Chief example is the arrow from Crazy Taxi. So if you legally patent your game or some of the gameplay mechanics, you can personally file suit against anyone infringing on your patent. Of course this requires your action and is not automatically done for you nor will be automatically enforced for you, so it is a lot of work. That's likely why most companies don't even bother patenting gameplay mechanics and things like that.

  • 08-21-2008 3:54 PM In reply to

    Re: many many questions...

    Just to be clear Microsoft will not arbitrate specific cases of Creator/Peer Reviewer disagreement

    When we release we will have a Play Testing mechanism where people can give feedback on your game so anything obvious that would prevent it from passing peer review can be fed back at that time

    Phil Smail, Program Manager, XNA Community Team
  • 08-22-2008 10:06 PM In reply to

    Re: many many questions...

    George Clingerman:
    > how would game updates work? for example. savedata may need to be converted to a new format, can we run code as our game is being updated?

    Game updates currently aren't possible with XBox Live Community Games but it's possible that might change before it's officially released. There's been no word if there will be a solution for this or not.

    I thought there was to be an update functionality, for fixing bugs? Maybe I'm confusing suggestions, discussion, and facts in my head, but I could've sworn there was something about that

    It'd be a bloody stupid world if people went around getting killed without dying, wouldn't it?
  • 08-22-2008 10:43 PM In reply to

    Re: many many questions...

    BShields:
    George Clingerman:
    > how would game updates work? for example. savedata may need to be converted to a new format, can we run code as our game is being updated?

    Game updates currently aren't possible with XBox Live Community Games but it's possible that might change before it's officially released. There's been no word if there will be a solution for this or not.

    I thought there was to be an update functionality, for fixing bugs? Maybe I'm confusing suggestions, discussion, and facts in my head, but I could've sworn there was something about that

    Previously we had been told (at Gamefest last I remember) that there was no definitive word on whether there would be updates. Therefore we've all been saying there won't be. However this was corrected in this post where we were told, for the first time that I can remember, that we would have updates.
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