Fervent Interactive:

I actually got just about what I expected.

Lessons Learned thus far.

1. Taking a guess on pricing with no pricing model available is a toss up.
2. I expected a little bit more of a PR push from MS on the whole CG thing and had I known this before I would have waited until there were more people aware of CG to submit.
3. I needed the data we just received to know that my pricing was not getting the conversion rate that I would hope for....next time I'll wait for the stats to be available before submitting.
4. puzzle games are a dime a dozen....and we cant charge a dime.

The guys at MS have done a great job of putting all of this together and I'd like to thank them for putting my game in front of so many people.  Money isn't everything and I'm pretty happy that so many people played and will continue to play my creation.

Word. You're my new prophet. I quote every single world.

And I add: being the first in the AppStore was a good thing (for who was the first), with hundreds of thousands of good reason($$$). Being the first in the CG was like driving in a dark fog for months. :D

Edit: Now there's a little light but in the meantime we (not all of us) wasted four months gasping for air.

I know people might be very disappointed with the sales number so far, but I think they are still reasonable on the hobbyist point of view. 

Of course if people were expected this for a full time job I am afraid that wont be the case for most of XNA developper, and btw AppStore is not that better either.  True we heard a lot of big success stories, but those are the few exepction.  I read a very interesting blog from a felow Canadian iPhone developer and his sales for his puzzle game (Dapple) were quite similar to what most of you guys got (he said that his sales didnt really cover the cost of his development spending).  So dont all cry, you arent alone. 

But I am confident that MS can improve the sales for all of us by promoting the service a bit more (currently you need go a bit deeper in the NXE interface to get to it and you have to know its there).  Also by putting a ranking systems this could help our potential customer to find most rated games.  We sould also not forget that we also need to promote our game ourself, its not going to sell by itself if we dont do any marketing for it.

Our team hasnt release anything yet, still working on some early prototype.  But we put forward some more realistic thinking of seeing this as an opportunity to sharpen our skill as game developer, have fun and then make a bit money so we can atleast pay back the minimum cost which was to get an XBox, XBox Live and XBCG Premium membership.  That goals should be reasonably attainable with a few month of sales, unless we really scare the customer away with our product ;-).

We also have the same view for the iPhone/iPod touch development too.

I know my wife will be quite happy if it can pay back the stuff I bought for our projects (books, hardware, etc...) ;-).  And all of us still have our regular paying jobs to support our life.

Fred

If I were working for a professional game development studio, my sales numbers would drive us out of business and force a career change on me.
However, as a single guy programming in his basement, my numbers grant me bragging rights amongst my friends.  Sure, my numbers are much lower than expected (1 sale in Italy for March!), but they're nothing to scoff at.

One thing to consider is the new features in 3.1. I think that will make XBLCG games even more attractive.

I agree that 3.1 is going to continue to make CG get more exposure.  Microsoft wants this to be successful, they are taking our feedback and constantly improving.  I have full confidence in the XNA team.  I've got quite a few ideas churning with Avatars in mind.

J Force Games:

Murudai:

I attribute a lot of that to the Flash version I made of the game for advertising. There are quite a few sites where you can play the Flash game, but for those of you curious what I did you can check it out here: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/488037. According to the ads I put in there (which also serves as a way to get stats) the Flash game has had around 100,000 plays so far, with roughly 12,000-15,000 now daily.

I find it odd that you put ads in an ad. But you say it's a way to get more stats? There's no other way?

Actually the Ad providers there have a service where they encrypt the game for you, add a preloader for you and even distribute the game for you. I used it for all those things (especially the last one), the ad in the preloader is just something that comes with this service automatically (mind you, it's earned me $70 so far, so not too shabby).

And the stats is also a nice bonus as well :)

I've crunched my numbers, and I've read through this thread, and now I'm putting together my perspective on things. Here are a few observations:

• The only thread so far on the XNA forums about sales numbers is this one, entitled "I got my sales numbers and want to cry thread". There is no other, happier thread, and there is no other more-neutral thread.
• My sales numbers don't make me want to cry, either from sadness or happiness. They're OK. Not great, but OK. For those of you playing along at home, my XBLCG game is In the Pit, which was the #1 most popular community game for a couple of weeks, and was at one point the 12th most popular of all XBLA games. And that popularity translated to OK sales. Fortunately, despite the popularity, I was only expecting OK sales.
• The XBLCG team proudly declared that "the top selling XBLCG games have made more money in these 4 months than the average American makes in a year". That amount is $30,000. When I heard this, I thought it was a pretty impressive number. As someone else pointed out, however, it's really NOT that impressive a number compared to iPhone app sales; Trism, for example, made $250,000 in two months.
• Most of those "top selling XBLCG games" aren't really games; they're things like "Fireplace" and "Rumble Massage". Meanwhile, from the general tone of this thread, it sounds like many XBLCG game developers are swearing off XBLCG, so the result is that non-game app developers are encouraged to make more non-game apps, and game developers are getting discouraged from making more games. For better or for worse, "community games" is becoming "community non-game apps".

So, based on these observations, it's clear that XBLCG is not a "goldmine" platform like the iPhone is, but that's OK because it still achieves (what I've perceived to be) it's primary goal of being a means for hobbyists to easily develop and distribute console games. I'm still going to complete the new XBLCG game I'm currently working on, and if I come up with another game that is particularly well suited to XBLCG I'll develop it for XBLCG, but I'm going to do so with the understanding that XBLCG is not going to make me rich, or let me quit my day job. (I didn't have this perception of XBLCG before, but until the sales data was released it was still a vague possibility.) Meanwhile, I will continue to also work on commercial flash games, and iPhone games, and other various projects.

Here's hoping that XBLCG does mature into a goldmine, and in the meantime continues to be a great resource for hobbyist developers!

I see a goldmine of talents here in this thread.

For now, Community Games best matches with Microsoft's corporate tagline "Your potential. Our passion."

luvcraft:

Most of those "top selling XBLCG games" aren't really games; they're things like "Fireplace" and "Rumble Massage".

It is ok to be a hobbyist developer and make money you know. these things are not mutually exclusive. You can go ahead and say it's ok because i needed to learn the language or because i wasn't expecting much. BUT some people here put an awful lot of work into their titles. they made some good games with some good variety. they got rid of all the bugs and obtained nice artwork and music. should these people be paying to have someone else play their game ?

Well actualy i have gone off topic again. My point to writing this is, we are not really getting out what we have put in. The small apps could be the way to make money, but i ALWAYS envisioned XBLCG to be about games. Hell the big banner on creators.cna.com had a picture saying "Over 200 GAMES and counting". Ermmm is that really true ? I do wonder. I want to write games damnit, i love playing games, i love what has been done so far with XBLCG, and i love it's potential. But unless we get some traffic going thru this place.. it's like a ghost town. People have said, wait till the really great apps come out in this place and it will bring people in droves... Now why would anyone spend that kind of time ?

I do have to say i put a lot of time and effort into my game. As otehr obviously have, and some have not. some have more experience to polish a game with, some have not. But if this place is reserved for the learning or mediocre game (sorry APP) creators, where is this awesome title going to come from ? Or from who ?

My final point will be... to make money is a nicety, i do not need to make money from my games.
I do however need people to play them, to download them at least. Or what is the point (a backup of my game ? lol)

I'll admit that Microsoft could be doing more to promote community games, however I think it's important to accept responsibility for your game's success or failure.

Is your game fun?  Is it easy to learn how to play?  Are the controls intuitive & responsive?  Is it unique?  Is the average person going to look at your game and look at your price tag and feel like they're getting a good deal?  Is your game polished and cohesive?  Did you promote your game in the channels that would reach the kind of people who would enjoy your game?  If you can honestly answer yes to all of those questions, then chances are your game will sell well.  Sadly, the vast majority of Community Games so far have at least one (and often multiple) major problems.

In any case, I hope people learn from their mistakes instead of becoming bitter when their amateurish first project doesn't light the sales charts on fire.

On another note, I'm pleased that, aside from the random non-games, it looks like consumers are valuing quality gameplay over presentation values.  Solar, Miner Dig Deep, Groov, and Johnny Platformer are all examples of games that don't have particularly impressive visuals and yet seem to have sold or are selling well due to their solid gameplay.

so all the numbers have gone eh ?

I came back to compile all the numbers into something useful to research from for myself. Pity they have been covertly removed. Maybe this post will now :D
 haha

Solid gameplay can only be evaluated by people playing a game. If people are not there playing them or browsing them. No-one will know how good it is. I also think the rating system will help a bundle, but isn't this a wish item and Not an item on any official XNA team development list.

luvcraft:

So, based on these observations, it's clear that XBLCG is not a "goldmine" platform like the iPhone is, but that's OK because it still achieves (what I've perceived to be) it's primary goal of being a means for hobbyists to easily develop and distribute console games.

I really disagree that the iPhone is some magical goldmine of easy money. Sure you hear about Trism or iShoot or the few others who have made absurd amounts of money, but they are just a few people out of the thousands and thousands putting things up there. Most people on iPhone aren't making any more than what we're making on XBLCG. Trust me; I know. I have four apps on the store (two for $0.99, one for $1.99, and one free, ad-supported one). All in all for those products (including the ad revenue) I've made only slightly more than what I made with one game on XBLCG. I've also talked to a lot of developers about what they're getting from their apps/games and most say that to even start making what one could consider a living you either have to get lucky or you have to have 6-8 apps selling consistently well (and "consistently" is actually very hard on the App Store where apps can go from 30-40 sales one day to 5 the next).

All you ever hear about is the people getting stupid lucky and making tons of money because that's what makes good press, but trust me from experience and from personally talking to a lot of iPhone developers when I say that the App Store isn't some wonderful land of getting rich. It's just a classic case of the grass looking greener on the other side.

Nick Gravelyn:

All you ever hear about is the people getting stupid lucky and making tons of money because that's what makes good press, but trust me from experience and from personally talking to a lot of iPhone developers when I say that the App Store isn't some wonderful land of getting rich. It's just a classic case of the grass looking greener on the other side.

I agree with Nick on this one. With a few apps out there and a few more coming along. It doesnt look Good. although some apps are currently lost in a 200 list. Imagine what its like in a 25K list.

All i hear from friends is Go iPhone, have ya heard about how much ya can make.... Geez, i wish i had a penny for each one....

My friends (and my wife) tells me the same: go to Iphone.

It is not a matter of "goldmine", it is a matter of HOPE.

Here we need HOPE. If our bestsellers makes not as much money as Iphone's ones (much more than ten time less!) you can only hope to make a pretty decent amount of money with a 4ever top selling app/game (but not to became a rich guy).

If I were MS a will invest on a single game to make it an example to show to the press; SOLAR guy, it's your turn, you're a lucky guy! ;-)
You're the right guy, in the right place at the right time.

Running Pixel:

If I were MS a will invest on a single game to make it an example to show to the press;

Let's hope for Kodu.  

SOLAR guy, it's your turn, you're a lucky guy! ;-)
You're the right guy, in the right place at the right time.

I think he just did a lot of things right that most developers don't. The big question is: Which things? :D Obviously there are at least two ways to have a top seller. One is a decent amount of polish and a good game, the other is something new and interesting. I don't think that people that buy RBR or TV calibration are the same people that buy Solar or Word Soup. Might be a good idea to do some market research and ask Xbox Live users which games they bought.

iPhone is different though. You can buy something from the apple store whenever and wherever you are bored.   If I'm bored and want to check out a CG game, I have to be at home with my console.  Then all the CG's have to compete against the games I already own and haven't fully played.   I am fully convinced if Microsoft made a portable device with 3G that gives people access to the existing marketplace, apple and sony would cry.

Steve Mulligan:

If I'm bored and want to check out a CG game, I have to be at home with my console.  

This is true, and iPhone does have the impulse purchase benefit, but you can still go onto the website and look at Community Games and think oh i'll try that later, hit download and the next time your xbox is turned on. The download will happen

VoodooChief:

Nick Gravelyn:

All you ever hear about is the people getting stupid lucky and making tons of money because that's what makes good press, but trust me from experience and from personally talking to a lot of iPhone developers when I say that the App Store isn't some wonderful land of getting rich. It's just a classic case of the grass looking greener on the other side.

I agree with Nick on this one. With a few apps out there and a few more coming along. It doesnt look Good. although some apps are currently lost in a 200 list. Imagine what its like in a 25K list.

All i hear from friends is Go iPhone, have ya heard about how much ya can make.... Geez, i wish i had a penny for each one....

Aye. There was a good presentation about this linked on this forum earlier: 90% of iPhone games make zilch.

Harald Maassen:

Don't forget that a few XBLCG games made "four times average yearly income" as well.

Four times?  Who said four times?

JeBuS:

Harald Maassen:

Don't forget that a few XBLCG games made "four times average yearly income" as well.

Four times?  Who said four times?

Wasn't it average yearly income in four months?

I believe it was they earned the average yearly income in the timespan of 4 months.  Not "in 4 months they've earned 4x the average yearly income".

the next time your xbox is turned on. The download will happen

Murudai:

JeBuS:

Harald Maassen:

Don't forget that a few XBLCG games made "four times average yearly income" as well.

Four times?  Who said four times?

Wasn't it average yearly income in four months?

My bad. Still decent though ;)

It'd be handy to know which titles did so well, so we can examine what they did well and make similar improvements to our titles.

At this rate, "Cornflower Blue" will be the best game on here!