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how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

Last post 9/1/2009 3:09 PM by GeneralJ927. 12 replies.
  • 8/31/2009 1:14 PM

    how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?



    Refer to the SimpleAnimation tutorial, "The tank model is built as a hierarchy of separate meshes. Inside the 3D modeling package, each mesh has a descriptive name and is attached to the appropriate parent mesh with a suitable pivot point. For example, the cannon mesh can tilt up and down, and is attached to the turret mesh, which can also swivel from left to right, and is itself attached to the body of the tank. Because of this hierarchy, when you rotate the turret, the cannon rotates along with it."

    how could i make a similar model,such as a human body model similar to this method, i want the legs, arms, upper, lower bodies are seperate so that i can control differently?
    I saw there is no bones in the tank model...not sure how i can make such attachment from one mesh to another....

  • 8/31/2009 2:42 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    I had seen the model before but removed it, but then when i read this i downloaded it again, tested it and it does what you said.

    Funny thing is it does actually have bones, i have a plugin which i use to export models to the unreal engine, and with it i get the option to look at the scene info in 3ds max for that model. It says there that there is 12 bones connecting the 12 geometry objects up. If i can paste a picture on here then i can show you but i think they are hidden somehow in the model which made you think it was made differently.

    With a human body you just keep it all joined up and stick a biped inside and connect it up is just the way to do it. Hope this has solved your question.
  • 8/31/2009 4:53 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    If you build it as an articulating assembly in Max, and export it, you can articulate it in XNA, too.
    Simply link the different parts in a hierarchy, and set the pivots to the points you want to articulate around.
    When drawing the Model, you can set the World matrix of each ModelMesh any way you want (there will be one ModelMesh per separate node in Max).

    Jon Watte, Direct3D MVP
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    kW X-port 3ds Max .X exporter
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  • 8/31/2009 5:13 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    Are you asking how you link mesh parts together in max and how would you do it with a complex human body specifically?

    If so...

    Here's what you do. Create your parts, foot, shin leg, pelvis, torso, chest, neck, head, arm, forearm, hand, fingers (left and right where applicable). Then you need to link or parent them in the proper direction. You are looking for the button that looks like 2 squares linked together by a chain. With the standard layout its the third button from the left on top. Just hover over it, it will say Select and Link, the next one will unlink.

    Before you start parenting meshes make sure to reset your xforms, its good practice and you don't want to reset xforms if anything is parented since it will screw it up and there is no undo for xforms.

    Now start parenting starting with the foot to the shin, shin to the leg, leg to the pelvis. Then the head to the neck, neck to the chest, chest to the torso, and torso to the pelvis. Finally hand to forearm, forearm to arm, and arm to chest.

    The last thing you need to do is to move the pivots to the right locations. If you don't know where its on the hierarchy tab on the right side. Select your foot, select affect pivot only in the hierarchy tab and then use the move tool and move the pivot to the ankle (front and left/right viewports are very handy for this precise placement). Then do the shins pivot to the knee and so on.

    You'll have very rigid animations without including additional torso parts, clavicles, and root node but you'll get way you are looking for more or less.
  • 8/31/2009 5:36 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    Thank you
  • 8/31/2009 5:48 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    Yeah, exactlly as what i wanted to do...and i did as you adviced,  it works 100% well, So much thank you...

    the reset xform step is very critical, my first trial failed to do so, and even i changed the pivots to the ankle position etc, the model parts still moved as its pivot has not been changed....although i dont know why... 

  • 8/31/2009 6:36 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    Yakra, btw, talking about the purpose of controlling different parts of a complex human body, in real time for a simulation, do we have other approach other than directly controlling mesh of a mesh hierarchy?

    I also searched on other tutorials, i saw some are using bones applied with skins to do the body animation, like the SkiningSample tutorial does. Can we also do this, like import a human body of meshes applied to a bone and we can control different bone? The SkiningSample tut's model only have one whole piece of mesh, as skin, by this can we access to and control the bone to control only hand, or head or leg?

    if it is doable, how?

    Thank you
  • 8/31/2009 6:37 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    Could you plz also take a look at my sencond question:

    refering to:
    Yakra, btw, talking about the purpose of controlling different parts of a complex human body, in real time for a simulation, do we have other approach other than directly controlling mesh of a mesh hierarchy?

    I also searched on other tutorials, i saw some are using bones applied with skins to do the body animation, like the SkiningSample tutorial does. Can we also do this, like import a human body of meshes applied to a bone and we can control different bone? The SkiningSample tut's model only have one whole piece of mesh, as skin, by this can we access to and control the bone to control only hand, or head or leg?

    if it is doable, how?

    Thank you
  • 8/31/2009 8:07 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    You can certainly create a rig (bones linked together) and skin a mesh to it. Its more complicated but follow that skinning tutorial and google rig creation for max. Making rigs can range from fairly easy to incredibly complex. There are all kinds of things from wire paremters to inverse kinematics (ik chains), bulge and squash (methods to prevent pinching of the mesh at joints), morph targets, etc. Of course at that point you'll be wanting to animate inside of max as opposed to procedurally... unless you were doing something like Rag Doll Kung Fu; which means you'll need to be able to export animations.
  • 8/31/2009 11:14 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    With a human body model you can either, use a biped or bones with the skin or physique modifier, this will let you join up the bones or biped with the model. for the easy option i find biped and physique best and the hard option is bones and skin. Although it can be the other way or mixed up for someone else.

    Then you can swing the arm and the hand with fingers will go with it, or just simply turn its foot. If you ever get to the part where you want to do ragdoll animation then talk to me, as if you try and do it manually it'll just get very hard.
  • 9/1/2009 1:22 AM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    I dont want to export any animations to xna, i wanna get it real time controlled, meaning there are no pre-set motions to the human body, rather i want to use my controller to control the exact postion of the bones, can i do this after exporting simple a bone applied with mesh/skin?
  • 9/1/2009 1:32 AM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    Well, yeah, i have just managed to control a charactor by directly controlling a hierarchey mesh, with guidence from the fellow firends here. Though not that close to Ragdoll yet, i wanted to explore alternative approach in controlling a charactor, in real time, meaning i simply dont want to import animation into the xna and use play-clip method, i wanted to import a bone/biped with skin or physique modifier only and control the bones, as what you talked abt in your 2nd paragraph, which make me believe at least it is doable, but then i fell into confusion again, so the quesiton is how to do this:) hah,  if you could share some tutorial or sample, that would be great, if the file is too big, my email is wangbin@nus.edu.sg

    thank you
  • 9/1/2009 3:09 PM In reply to

    Re: how to build a model with a hierarchy of separate meshes in 3ds Max 2009?

    By what your saying it seems you want to place a model into XNA with just bones or a biped and control each bone with a controller. I don't know much in coding but i'm guessing you will need a lot of it to accomplish what your asking for in XNA.

    I think i seen a game a long time back with this sort of thing. Lets just say it was awesome and insane at the same time.
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