I know how to tell the system which language version of the game I reviewed: marking the checkbox of the language in which
I reviewed at the end of peer-review.

But how can I tell the system which description (i.e. which language version of description) I reviewed?

thanks :)

You don't. Whatever language you select in the checkbox at the end is what you reviewed.

Jim Perry:

You don't. Whatever language you select in the checkbox at the end is what you reviewed.

Thank you for your answer.
But I'm still wondering how the system can be assured that all descriptions were reviewed and are free of prohibited
contents?

Let's assume that there is a Japanese-language game submitted for peer-review. The game is Japanese only, but has
English and Japanese descriptions.

Let's also assume that 10 reviewers are participating in the peer-review. Five reviewers speaks only Japanese. And the
remaining five reviewers speaks both English and Japanese and are willing to review the English-language description.

In this case, according to your reply, all 10 reviewers mark the Japanese-language checkbox because the game itself is
played in Japanese.

Now, isn't it likely that the system thinks that no one has reviewed the English language description yet?

The language you check at the applies to both the game AND the description.

So if you speak French and German (fluently - remember you are representing the native speakers of thos languages) and you check French and German at the end then you are expected to have read and approved, the French and German descriptions AND played the game in both French and German (by changing the language of your Xbox and restarting the game).

Note that should a game get through and the translations are no acceptable then Microsoft do know who claimed to speak each language and can deal with false claims accordingly. (That's just in case anyone out there thinks it would be cool to get their friends to check other languages when they review to speed things up.... gaming the system is not treated lightly)

Runway 360:

Let's assume that there is a Japanese-language game submitted for peer-review. The game is Japanese only, but has
English and Japanese descriptions.

Let's also assume that 10 reviewers are participating in the peer-review. Five reviewers speaks only Japanese. And the
remaining five reviewers speaks both English and Japanese and are willing to review the English-language description.

In this case, according to your reply, all 10 reviewers mark the Japanese-language checkbox because the game itself is
played in Japanese.

Now, isn't it likely that the system thinks that no one has reviewed the English language description yet?

As the Language FAQ explains adding in translated descriptions forces the review to requires those languages jsut as if the developer had checked those languages during submission.

So in your example a Japanese only game with an English description will require both Japanese and English reviewers. If all 10 reviewers only check the Japanese box then the game will still be waiting English reviewers and will still be 'in review'

@The ZMan and Jim Perry

Thank you for your help.
Maybe I hadn't gone through enough study/investigation about peer-review process.
(Fortunately, I've reviewed only Japanese games recently and I've done it in Japanese. In other words, I was not involved
in letting unacceptable translation through peer-review ;) )

And Runway... you might want to pass on to the Japanese devs that it looks like they are using bad translators, or automated tools. Some of the English descriptions are very bad and yet are still passing which suggests to me that some of the people reviewing and claiming English may not be native speakers.

If they want better translations they can post the game to playtest with their best effort and ask... all of us here will be only too glad to give them a better sounding description.  We love to see the Japanese games on the service but its hard for people to understand what to do or even get downloaded when the description doesn't make sense.

I'm sure the Japanese speakers hate to see bad translations as much as we do.

The ZMan:

And Runway... you might want to pass on to the Japanese devs that it looks like they are using bad translators, or automated tools. Some of the English descriptions are very bad and yet are still passing which suggests to me that some of the people reviewing and claiming English may not be native speakers.

If they want better translations they can post the game to playtest with their best effort and ask... all of us here will be only too glad to give them a better sounding description.  We love to see the Japanese games on the service but its hard for people to understand what to do or even get downloaded when the description doesn't make sense.

I'm sure the Japanese speakers hate to see bad translations as much as we do.

I occasionally come here and post comments/questions/argument in (a sort of) English as if I love experimenting with/ improving my English.
But, to make it straight, I don't want to use language skills here to act as a translator, interpreter or anyone who's role is a intermediary between two
languages whereas I see demand for that sort of people.

I might be sounding incooperative. One reason is related to what I think international online community like CCO should be.
Another reason is simply time constraint. As someone who was socially withdrawn for years (a basement guy in parents' house in
American English phrases?), my real-life issues are to the degree of when I can find next part-time job.

I basically stop by this playground when I don't feel like/ or tired of doing real-life things. So my commitment here is limited to doing
whatever I want on a whim. My whim has sometimes resulted in writing a very lengthy reply to a Japanese forum which quoted from you guys to discuss why
seven-day wait period is important. In the past, it has also resulted in exchanging e-mails with XNA Japan Team.

So it's possible that I have coincidentally passed on to the Japanese community some of valuable information even if
you didn't ask for. So, I'd be delighted if you regard me like a unharmful insect which may possibly act like a beneficial one.

As to your latest request and the problem behind it (bad translation passing reviews), I take it seriously and will discuss this issue in
the Japanese forums.

Just want to clarify how peer review work and answer the original question.

You tell the system what language you reviewed the description in by telling what language you speak on your profile.

The language set you claim to speak on your profile will count toward reviewing the descriptions in these languages no matter what language(s) you claim you have reviewed the actual game in at the end of your review. The reason for this is simple: we will present all languages for you to review during peer review so if you speak it you've reviewed it, but you might not see all languages when you play the game, so we have to treat those two sets (localized game metadata and game binary) independently.

Language you speak in your profile -> languages you reviewed the description in
Language you check at the end of peer review -> languages you reviewed the game binary in

So as an example: I speak French and English, that's what is set on my profile. I review a game that can run in French and English with descriptions in French, English and Japanese. However I only play that game in English and only check that box at the end of my review (I couldn't review the game/binary in French for some reason). My review will count as a review for the French and English descriptions because that's what my profile says I speak and I have seen both those localized strings during peer review and as a review in English only for the binary (cause that's what I checked when I claimed I played the game at the end of peer review).

@Julien Ellie

Thank you. Your comment is very informative. I noticed I had confused Japanese CCO members when I tried to explain how peer-review works
even though I was still in short of knowledge. (I have a bad habit of doing unnecessary things. I should have simply mentioned bad translation
issue.)

I got to clarify in my country's forums too!

We have two thread here on the same subject, and.... people you're giving wrong information on both threads. The OP is totally right asking the question because the system is not taking the descriptions into account.

I've just double checked this situation starting the review of Gitigiti (just one among others in review having the same issue). I'm supposed to fail the game because of the Italian is gibberish (same applies to other languages) but at the end of the review sequence, having checked the failure for the bad description and having filled in the reason for failure..... the system only shows me the English checkbox, so I cannot fail the game because of the terrible Italian description!!!

The same applies to Pass the game... NO CHECKBOX!!!

Cheers,
Pino

Yes, you can. The last paragraph in Julien's post above is your answer.

Jim Perry:

Yes, you can. The last paragraph in Julien's post above is your answer.

No Jim,

The game I cited has English and Japanese binaries but has descriptions in all the possible languages. I can only pass or fail the game in English (as I haven't checked Japanese in my profile) but there are no checkboxes shown for the languages used in the descriptions and checked in my profile. At the end of the review the Italian, French and Spanish checkboxes were not shown, so I could only fail or pass the game in English even if its description is in all the languages.

I think that the meaning of this is that is wrong the info given about the need of a pass in all the languages used in the description even if the game binary is in one language only because the system will show only the languages used in the binaries.

Cheers
Pino

To be even more clear: ZMan post here cannot be true because Spanish and Japanese speakers will not be able to "check" any box simply because "My Cool Game" is only English, French and German so the game will never pass (if that rule is true).

Cheers,
Pino

You can and you should reject the game if the description in Italian is gibberish. There is a content descriptor for that. It's irrelevant that you check at the end that you reviewed the game binary in another language that is not Italian as the last check box only applies to how you reviewed the actual game not the game metadata.

There has been some inaccurate data floating around as to how language was tracked during peer review and since I am guilty when it comes to how peer review works I was forwarded this thread. I'm trying to make it a little more clear but if you have more questions or I wasn't clear enough feel free to ask!

PinoEire:

At the end of the review the Italian, French and Spanish checkboxes were not shown, so I could only fail or pass the game in English even if its description is in all the languages.

Correct. There's no checkboxes for those languages because the entire game isn't localized for them. You check English and the system assumes that any descriptions in languages that match what you have in your profile have been reviewed. If you need to reject it for an incorrect description, simply put that info in the comments when you fail it. That's my understanding of what Julien said.

Julien Ellie:

You can and you should reject the game if the description in Italian is gibberish. There is a content descriptor for that. It's irrelevant that you check at the end that you reviewed the game binary in another language that is not Italian.

Julien,

that will get me banned :) By checking the various boxes I declare that I actually plyed the game in those languages so I'm bound to pass or fail only in that checked languages.

At any rate.... how will you pass the game in French if you don't have the checkbox? You pass it in English... but this makes false the whole thing about getting the pass for ALL the languages used in the description.

Cheers,
Pino

You don't pass or fail a game in language X, you give information as to what you reviewed. You should only give truthful information as to what you've seen and reviewed, there is no reason to lie or give inaccurate statement at any points during peer review. If we step back and look at the question we're asking during peer review it's not that complicated :)

A game that's only playable in English but has a gibberish Italian description should get rejected. When you review it, you will check the check box that applies and say the metadata was inaccurate or wrong. However, you still played the game in one of the language available in the binary. Whatever language you played the game in should be the check boxes that you check.

Once again, the check boxes apply to the language you played the game in, and only that, they do not represent the whole set of what language you are making your whole review for. The text before the check box at the end of peer review are very explicit, you say you've played *the game* in languages X, Y and Z.

We assume that even if you don't play the game in language X because you didn't have time or the console didn't even let you (it picked a language for you based on your console locale) you will still be able to read, understand and validate descriptions and metadata in all the language that you speak. You might however review a game that has descriptions that you don't understand and that's ok, your review won't track against those that you didn't claim to speak and the system will require those descriptions to be reviewed at another time: we're tracking metadata language and game language as two separate sets that have to be approved independently.

Jim Perry:

PinoEire:

At the end of the review the Italian, French and Spanish checkboxes were not shown, so I could only fail or pass the game in English even if its description is in all the languages.

Correct. There's no checkboxes for those languages because the entire game isn't localized for them. You check English and the system assumes that any descriptions in languages that match what you have in your profile have been reviewed. If you need to reject it for an incorrect description, simply put that info in the comments when you fail it. That's my understanding of what Julien said.

Jim,

If I can decide to review a game only in one language because I don't have the time to check it in all my languages... how on hearth the system will "assume" an English pass/fail valid for all my languages? This interpretation is really too imaginative :) Anyhow ZMan is clear about "checking off those languages", no misunderstanding there.

I think that this whole think is wrong: do you really think that all those Japanese games with 5 language descriptions (all gibberish!) got a fast pass that way if this rule were true? I strongly doubt it.

Cheers,
Pino

PinoEire:

To be even more clear: ZMan post here cannot be true because Spanish and Japanese speakers will not be able to "check" any box simply because "My Cool Game" is only English, French and German so the game will never pass (if that rule is true).

After reading Juliens post I have to admit that post of mine is now wrong... it was based on what the Microsoft guys told me earlier in the year when I tried to clarify how this works... seems I was misinformed... I will make sure we get this sorted once and for all.

Julien Ellie:

Once again, the check boxes apply to the language you played the game in, and only that, they do not represent the whole set of what language you are making your whole review for. The text before the check box at the end of peer review are very explicit, you say you've played *the game* in languages X, Y and Z.

So, even accepting your point (which I do not) if the game is Japanese only it will never get a pass because will be almost impossible to find persons speaking Japanes along with all the ather languages... no way to evaluate a game in Japanese myself, and I do understand Japanese well enough to read a newspaper (with the help of my dictionary!).

Cheers,
Pino

PinoEire:

If I can decide to review a game only in one language because I don't have the time to check it in all my languages... how on hearth the system will "assume" an English pass/fail valid for all my languages?

As I said, it's up to you to specify what description is incorrect in the comments.

PinoEire:

I think that this whole think is wrong: do you really think that all those Japanese games with 5 language descriptions (all gibberish!) got a fast pass that way if this rule were true? I strongly doubt it.

So do I, but if it's discovered that reviewers aren't correctly reviewing, action can be taken.

The ZMan:

After reading Juliens post I have to admit that post of mine is now wrong... it was based on what the Microsoft guys told me earlier in the year when I tried to clarify how this works... seems I was misinformed... I will make sure we get this sorted once and for all.

Thanks, that will be really appreciated ;)

Cheers,
Pino

PinoEire:

Julien Ellie:

Once again, the check boxes apply to the language you played the game in, and only that, they do not represent the whole set of what language you are making your whole review for. The text before the check box at the end of peer review are very explicit, you say you've played *the game* in languages X, Y and Z.

So, even accepting your point (which I do not) if the game is Japanese only it will never get a pass because will be almost impossible to find persons speaking Japanes along with all the ather languages... no way to evaluate a game in Japanese myself, and I do understand Japanese well enough to read a newspaper (with the help of my dictionary!).

Well I'm not sure there is anything to accept, I wrote the code who enforces this so I'm just telling you how it works :).

Simple rules:

- you can't review a game in a language that you don't speak
- all metadata items have to be reviewed by several people who speak the language
- each language in the game has to be reviewed by several people who speak the language

Given those, the options are limited. So to review a game binary that's only in Japanese you have to speak Japanese. Now if the game has additional descriptions in French, English or whatever other languages, the system will enforce that we get reviewers who speak Japanese (in order to play the game) *and* at least one additional language from the metadata. If the game binary is in a language that has less peer reviewers that could indeed take a while.

PinoEire:

The ZMan:

After reading Juliens post I have to admit that post of mine is now wrong... it was based on what the Microsoft guys told me earlier in the year when I tried to clarify how this works... seems I was misinformed... I will make sure we get this sorted once and for all.

Thanks, that will be really appreciated ;)

Oh I'm sure Julien is right... I bet he worked on that bit of code!

What I want to clarify is how the filters work on the review page and to rewrite the language FAQ so we don't have this discussion again and to check into the 5 language fast reviews to make sure nobody is gaming the system.